Page 71 of 83 FirstFirst ... 2161697071727381 ... LastLast
Results 701 to 710 of 822

Thread: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

  1. #701
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Last Seen
    09-26-15 @ 04:38 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,143

    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Torture is a crime. If you already knew a person had committed it--i.e. was a "torturer"--what need would there be to prosecute him? No one has shown probable cause to believe that even one American ever engaged in torture. Dianne Feinstein's voluminous collection of fish wrap proves not one damn thing, except that she and people like her place their personal interests above their country's.

    The sad fact is that far too much space is now being taken up in this once-great country by millions of half-educated people who resent it and are glad to carry water for its jihadist enemies. They serve as a fifth column for the likes of the vermin who just murdered a dozen innocent people in Paris and then shouted "Allahu akbar!" in the streets. Here's hoping the French authorities catch those bastards, force them to give up any confederates using whatever means necessary, and then try them for murder. Too bad they don't still have the guillotine.
    Were these people tortured after being found guilty by courts or before?

    For someone who says once great nation how could you advocate for limiting the rights of everybody. How could you justify torture for information before people were found guilty?

  2. #702
    American
    cpgrad08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lakewood,WA
    Last Seen
    10-18-17 @ 07:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    5,388
    Blog Entries
    10

    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob0627 View Post
    All senior U.S. officials and CIA agents who authorized or carried out torture like waterboarding as part of former President George W. Bush's national security policy must be prosecuted, top U.N. officials said Wednesday.

    It's not clear, however, how human rights officials think these prosecutions will take place, since the Justice Department has declined to prosecute and the U.S. is not a member of the International Criminal Court.

    Zeid Raad al-Hussein, the U.N. high commissioner for human rights, said it's "crystal clear" under international law that the United States, which ratified the U.N. Convention Against Torture in 1994, now has an obligation to ensure accountability.

    "In all countries, if someone commits murder, they are prosecuted and jailed. If they commit rape or armed robbery, they are prosecuted and jailed. If they order, enable or commit torture ? recognized as a serious international crime ? they cannot simply be granted impunity because of political expediency," he said.

    U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon hopes the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee report on the CIA's harsh interrogation techniques at secret overseas facilities is the "start of a process" toward prosecutions, because the "prohibition against torture is absolute," Ban's spokesman said.

    Ben Emmerson, the U.N.'s special rapporteur on counterterrorism and human rights, said the report released Tuesday shows "there was a clear policy orchestrated at a high level within the Bush administration, which allowed (it) to commit systematic crimes and gross violations of international human rights law."

    He said international law prohibits granting immunity to public officials who allow the use of torture, and this applies not just to the actual perpetrators but also to those who plan and authorize torture.

    UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture - ABC News

    The only CIA agent who has been jailed to date for anything to do with torture is John Kiriakou, for whistleblowing on the CIA torture program.
    Sure why right, right after the other nations of the UN the have committed torture and crimes against humanity allow those people to be prosecuted.

  3. #703
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles area
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 01:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,868

    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    Were these people tortured after being found guilty by courts or before?
    I don't accept that the U.S. ever tortured anyone as a matter of policy. If there is good reason to believe any individual violated any U.S. laws regarding torture by acting without authority, then let the relevant federal authorities charge that person with a crime.

    For someone who says once great nation how could you advocate for limiting the rights of everybody.
    As a lawyer, I know very well that the Constitution is the highest law in this country, and I have the greatest respect for it. I have never called for limiting the constitutional rights of anyone.

    How could you justify torture for information before people were found guilty
    As I said, I don't accept that the U.S. ever tortured anyone as a matter of policy. Torture is a crime under section 2340 of the U.S. Code and other federal laws, and I do not justify crimes.

    Who was this who supposedly had a right to a trial but was denied that right? Aliens captured abroad and designated by the President as unlawful enemy combatants have no right to a trial in a U.S. court. Any trial they got would be before a military commission, in which there is no jury. But last I heard, none of them--even Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the murders of almost 3,000 people on 9/11--had been tried. This should have happened a decade ago, and those convicted of war crimes imprisoned or quickly executed. Meanwhile, the U.S. is detaining them as long as hostilities continue, as it has the right to do under the laws of war.

    These terrorists are outside the law--they are not entitled to any the protections the Geneva Conventions and the laws of war provide lawful, uniformed combatants who are taken prisoners of war. Even so, the U.S. graciously chose to extend them the same rights P.O.W.'s enjoy as to food, shelter, Red Cross inspections, medical care, etc.

    You might to read Ex Parte Quirin, a 1942 Supreme Court decision dealing with six Nazi saboteurs who were landed here by U-boat but soon captured. It is still good law, and it goes into these subjects at length. For example, it contains a detailed discussion of the difference between lawful combatants--i.e. ordinary uniformed soldiers--and unlawful combatants like spies and saboteurs--and Islamist terrorists.

    It might interest some people here to know just how lenient the U.S. has been with these bastards, compared to other times. One of the six Nazi saboteurs captured, Herbert Haupt, was an American citizen. Since he was charged by the federal government with capital crimes, surely he had the Fifth Amendment right you and I have to be indicted by a grand jury, right? And as a citizen, surely he had the right to a trial by a jury of his peers, right?

    No to both. Once an American citizen sides with the enemy and commits war crimes against this country, said the Court, his citizenship will not help him. The six, despite the efforts of some of the best criminal defense lawyers in the U.S., were convicted of a number of war crimes by a military commission and sentenced to death. The Court only got the case by agreeing--against President Roosevelt's wishes--to hear the appeal of the men's habeas petition, which a lower federal court had denied. But it denied it too.

    Only about two months after the six had landed here by U-boat, they reached the end of the line. Imagine things getting done so fast! In a building in New York City one summer day, one by one, on the hour, the six were executed in the electric chair, which had been brought there for that purpose. And U.S. citizen Haupt, without ever having seen the inside of a regular U.S. court, or having had a jury trial, went to his death just like the others. A couple members of his family in Florida who had briefly fed and sheltered him were convicted of treason and sent to prison for a long stretch.

    It was not all that many years ago that most Americans had the courage of their convictions and were willing to act firmly and decisively against this country's enemies, instead of wringing their hands, gazing at their navels, and holding out the crying towel for them.
    Last edited by matchlight; 01-09-15 at 12:20 AM.

  4. #704
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Last Seen
    09-26-15 @ 04:38 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,143

    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I don't accept that the U.S. ever tortured anyone as a matter of policy. If there is good reason to believe any individual violated any U.S. laws regarding torture by acting without authority, then let the relevant federal authorities charge that person with a crime.



    As a lawyer, I know very well that the Constitution is the highest law in this country, and I have the greatest respect for it. I have never called for limiting the constitutional rights of anyone.



    As I said, I don't accept that the U.S. ever tortured anyone as a matter of policy. Torture is a crime under section 2340 of the U.S. Code and other federal laws, and I do not justify crimes.

    Who was this who supposedly had a right to a trial but was denied that right? Aliens captured abroad and designated by the President as unlawful enemy combatants have no right to a trial in a U.S. court. They have a right to trial by a military commission, in which there is no jury, but last I heard none of them had been tried. The U.S. is detaining them as long as hostilities continue, as it has the right to do.

    These people are not even entitled to the protections the Geneva Conventions and the laws of war provide lawful, uniformed combatants who are taken prisoners of war. Even so, the U.S. chose to extend these war criminals the same rights P.O.W.'s enjoy as to food, shelter, Red Cross inspections, medical care, etc.

    You might to read Ex Parte Quirin, a 1942 Supreme Court decision dealing with six Nazi saboteurs who were landed here by U-boat but soon captured. It is still good law, and it goes into these subjects at length. For example, it contains a detailed discussion of the difference between lawful combatants--i.e. ordinary uniformed soldiers--and unlawful combatants like spies and saboteurs--and Islamist terrorists.

    It might interest someone here to know just how lenient the U.S. has been with these bastards, compared to other times. One of the six Nazi saboteurs captured, Herbert Haupt, was an American citizen. Since he was charged by the federal government with capital crimes, surely he had the Fifth Amendment right you and I have to be indicted by a grand jury, right? And as a citizen, surely he had the right to a trial by a jury of his peers, right?

    No to both. Once an American citizen sides with the enemy and commits war crimes against this country, said the Court, his citizenship does not help him. The six, despite the help of some of the best criminal defense lawyers in the U.S., were convicted of a number of war crimes by a military commission and sentenced to death. The Court only got the case by agreeing--against President Roosevelt's wishes--to hear the appeal of the men's habeas petition, which a lower federal court had denied. It denied it, too.

    Only about two months after the six had landed here by U-boat, they reached the end of the line. In a building in New York City one summer day, one by one, on the hour, the six were executed in the electric chair, which had been brought there for that purpose. And U.S. citizen Haupt, without ever having seen the inside of a regular U.S. court, or having had a jury trial, went to his death just the same. And a couple family members in Florida who had briefly fed and sheltered him were charged with treason, convicted, and sent to prison for a long stretch.

    It was not all that many years ago that most Americans had the courage of their convictions and were willing to act firmly and decisively against this country's enemies, instead of wringing their hands gazing at their navels, and holding out the crying towel for them.
    You're long vvery interesting story doesn't apply to my comments. These criminals were tortured before going to court.

    I'm suggesting that people are tortured for information without being granted any due process to suggest they even have any relative knowledge to give the cia. I understand keeping people as pows but we are taking people and bringing them to different Locations and torturing them without any reasonable process or oversight into whether or not they have any reasonable knowledge.

    We as a nation hold the ideas of central government being restricted with it's powers as Much as possible and allocate for individual Freedom as Much as possible. These radical jihadists, no matter how vile they are, are awarded our rights.

    You're story of the u boat is different then going to Germany finding Nazis bringing them back here and torturing them for years. The boat was off our coast.

    If this "information gathering system" is really used to gain information it would not take 8 years to find Osama bin Laden. It's a psychological implementation by American intelligence and military for reasons of installing fear into radical Islam, or I should say people that don't agree with our oil policy in Saudi Arabia

  5. #705
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 01:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    I guess if they bled the prisoners that's cool too, because that was a common 18th century medical practice too..,.


    Your comment is as irrelevant as it is invalid, and just shows your position is nothing but an emotional one.





    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    Do you think if you break a leg in prison then the prison guards hold you down and amputate you, would that be torture or a standard medical procedure

    Irrelevant childlike emotive argument noted again.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  6. #706
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Last Seen
    09-26-15 @ 04:38 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,143

    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post


    Your comment is as irrelevant as it is invalid, and just shows your position is nothing but an emotional one.






    Irrelevant childlike emotive argument noted again.
    Is this seriously how you debate?

  7. #707
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 01:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    Is this seriously how you debate?
    The problem here is all yours.

    You made false claims, haven't been able to focus and then make irrelevant arguments.

    Example: Your previous post of an irrelevant absurdity that has nothing to do with what occurred.
    Yep, the problem here is all yours.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  8. #708
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Last Seen
    09-26-15 @ 04:38 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,143

    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The problem here is all yours.

    You made false claims, haven't been able to focus and then make irrelevant arguments.

    Example: Your previous post of an irrelevant absurdity that has nothing to do with what occurred.
    Yep, the problem here is all yours.
    I think you'd be a prefect expert for Fox news or CNN considering your debate tactics is to say anYthing that you can't explain as irrelevant

  9. #709
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 01:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertie76 View Post
    I think you'd be a prefect expert for Fox news or CNN considering your debate tactics is to say anYthing that you can't explain as irrelevant
    There you go speaking absurd nonsense again.

    You should really learn to focus on the topic, not on the other person or other such irrelevancies.
    Last edited by Excon; 01-09-15 at 05:00 AM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  10. #710
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Last Seen
    09-26-15 @ 04:38 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,143

    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    There you go speaking absurd nonsense again.

    You should really learn to focus on the topic and not on the other person and other such irrelevancies.
    If you think it's irrelevant that's your problem

Page 71 of 83 FirstFirst ... 2161697071727381 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •