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Thread: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    It is astounding how audaciously some activists are in spreading lies. And anyone who is not willing to be exact is a liar you know?
    Actually, you see, the use of the "T" word for things that are not torture is a type of Newspeak in redefining an emotion loaded word and trying to slip it into the hearts and minds of the people that have not looked into the thing very carefully and is so rather disgusting. It may suit certain agendas and be helpful as propaganda often is, when lying is the only way of projecting ones ideas, but it also does a lot of damage. It especially harms the human rights agenda and will slow justice by making it easier to laugh about the stupidity and/or dishonesty of the accusing moralizers that cannot even be straight, when things are important.
    No sir. By using other words to describe torture, one employs a euphemism. That is what you, Dubya, Dick and a host of others do.

    As for me, I recognize a euphemism when I see one, and I completely understand why a person uses one. In this case to help rationalize criminal actions so that they appear harmless. "Oh, we didn't really torture the man, we merely interrogated him in an enhanced manner."

    Newspeak, which you defend and employ, is really nothing but euphemisms.

    They must employ euphemisms to disguise and deceive those gullible enough to not understand what's happening.

    Torture is illegal and immoral. Those who condone it are pathetic.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    No sir. By using other words to describe torture, one employs a euphemism. That is what you, Dubya, Dick and a host of others do.

    As for me, I recognize a euphemism when I see one, and I completely understand why a person uses one. In this case to help rationalize criminal actions so that they appear harmless. "Oh, we didn't really torture the man, we merely interrogated him in an enhanced manner."

    Newspeak, which you defend and employ, is really nothing but euphemisms.

    They must employ euphemisms to disguise and deceive those gullible enough to not understand what's happening.

    Torture is illegal and immoral. Those who condone it are pathetic.
    Thing is that there are continua between the soft questioning and skinning alive as well as between the warm prison apartment and the damp, cold oublier high in the dungeon wall. Anyone that says it is a euphemism to establish the exact point on the scale of a given action is dishonest, wants to puff up their their feeling of importance by talking big or just has not given enough serious thought to the matter to understand, what they are talking about. Personally, I think that talking that way is rather disgusting and disqualifies the speaker if not utterly then at least in his thoughts to this theme.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Thing is that there are continua between the soft questioning and skinning alive as well as between the warm prison apartment and the damp, cold oublier high in the dungeon wall. Anyone that says it is a euphemism to establish the exact point on the scale of a given action is dishonest, wants to puff up their their feeling of importance by talking big or just has not given enough serious thought to the matter to understand, what they are talking about. Personally, I think that talking that way is rather disgusting and disqualifies the speaker if not utterly then at least in his thoughts to this theme.
    It should be obvious to any adult who is not an idiot that when several of the jihadist lice who murdered almost three thousand people in their conspiracy to decapitate the government of the U.S. were captured, and when there was reason to suspect some of their pals might try something even worse at any time, and murder many more thousands of Americans, it was vital to extract any information they might have--and fast. It should be just as obvious that in doing that, we would want to use as much coercion as possible short of violating any U.S. laws, using methods designed to get results quickly.

    Some people who resent this country are fond of claiming that the waterboarding technique, or some of the other enhanced interrogation techniques that were approved for use, constituted torture, which is prohibited under U.S. laws. Their problem is that the very fine legal scholars who studied that question very thoroughly concluded none of the techniques was torture, and so advised the officials directing the interrogations. Watching movies by Michael Moore and Oliver Stone, or listening to the drivel of some late-night TV comedian, or parroting the tripe some degenerate dope with green hair and a nose ring scribbled in some urban throwaway paper, hasn't given the people who resent this country enough game to make anything even approaching a real legal argument that anyone ever authorized the use of torture. The best they can do is jabber nonsense and make emotional accusations.

    In some cases, running down this country and encouraging sympathy for its enemies is not just the product of ignorance, but something more sinister. This is a theme of a very fine book by Andy McCarthy, who helped prosecute and convict Abdel "The Blind Sheikh" Rahman for his part in the conspiracy to blow up the World Trade Center the first time, in 1993. The title is "The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America."

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    It should be obvious to any adult who is not an idiot that when several of the jihadist lice who murdered almost three thousand people in their conspiracy to decapitate the government of the U.S. were captured, and when there was reason to suspect some of their pals might try something even worse at any time, and murder many more thousands of Americans, it was vital to extract any information they might have--and fast. It should be just as obvious that in doing that, we would want to use as much coercion as possible short of violating any U.S. laws, using methods designed to get results quickly.

    Some people who resent this country are fond of claiming that the waterboarding technique, or some of the other enhanced interrogation techniques that were approved for use, constituted torture, which is prohibited under U.S. laws. Their problem is that the very fine legal scholars who studied that question very thoroughly concluded none of the techniques was torture, and so advised the officials directing the interrogations. Watching movies by Michael Moore and Oliver Stone, or listening to the drivel of some late-night TV comedian, or parroting the tripe some degenerate dope with green hair and a nose ring scribbled in some urban throwaway paper, hasn't given the people who resent this country enough game to make anything even approaching a real legal argument that anyone ever authorized the use of torture. The best they can do is jabber nonsense and make emotional accusations.

    In some cases, running down this country and encouraging sympathy for its enemies is not just the product of ignorance, but something more sinister. This is a theme of a very fine book by Andy McCarthy, who helped prosecute and convict Abdel "The Blind Sheikh" Rahman for his part in the conspiracy to blow up the World Trade Center the first time, in 1993. The title is "The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America."
    I am mostly with you there. But I do not think we will be able to nor should avoid doing a more precise definition of where torture begins. In that respect we should be thankful to the idiots.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I am mostly with you there. But I do not think we will be able to nor should avoid doing a more precise definition of where torture begins. In that respect we should be thankful to the idiots.
    I think the OLC memos on the subject made very clear, in great detail, what the crime of torture consists of under U.S. law. I can't imagine how it could have been defined more precisely. Torture is a specific intent crime, and that is probably the biggest stumbling block for people who assert that any of the approved enhanced interrogation techniques was torture.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Do we have an elected government or not? We are not members of the ICC, nor do we buckle to UN demands...You must really dream of One World Government Joe.
    Again, another strawman. I said we, our government, should have prosecuted them. I didn't say a thing about the UN. For me the issue is the law, our law. Our leaders broke it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, another strawman. I said we, our government, should have prosecuted them. I didn't say a thing about the UN. For me the issue is the law, our law. Our leaders broke it.
    Our legal system said our leaders didn't break the law and you seem to relying on a partisan hatchet job report that didn't even allow the defense to be interviewed. I call that typical liberalism.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Our legal system said our leaders didn't break the law and you seem to relying on a partisan hatchet job report that didn't even allow the defense to be interviewed. I call that typical liberalism.
    No, they didn't really answer that question. Sorry.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, they didn't really answer that question. Sorry.
    Really?

    In March 2003, John Yoo, the acting Office of Legal Counsel, issued a fourth memo to the General Counsel of DOD, concluding his legal opinion by saying that federal laws related to torture and other abuse did not apply to interrogations overseas, five days before the March 19, 2003 invasion of Iraq. The legal opinions were withdrawn by Jack Goldsmith of the OLC in June 2004 but reaffirmed by the succeeding head of the OLC in December 2004.[14][15] During the presidency of George W. Bush, U.S. government officials at various times said they did not believe waterboarding to be a form of torture
    .

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Really?

    .
    Meaningless. They did not face a court. This was just someone trying to excuse the law breaking.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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