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Thread: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

  1. #311
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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    The past decades have shown that we do.
    No, they haven't.
    There actions and inaction over that time period is what say they are useless.
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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No, they haven't.
    There actions and inaction over that time period is what say they are useless.
    You can think that, the reality however is very different IMHO. And their actions have been very useful.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Great, then you should know your original statement was false.


    Look at that.
    Obviously you don't know that your statement was false.
    No one can be tried outside of this Nation for (especially as no crime was committed). No one else has jurisdiction but the US.
    And what is a representative of our Justice department supposedly quoted as saying? (which is in line with what we already know)

    However, a Justice Department official said Wednesday the department did not intend to revisit its decision to not prosecute anyone for the interrogation methods. The official said the department had reviewed the committee's report and did not find any new information that would cause the investigation to be reopened.

    "Our inquiry was limited to a determination of whether prosecutable offenses were committed," the official said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss an investigation. "Importantly, our investigation was not intended to answer the broader questions regarding the propriety of the examined conduct."

    So the investigation was limited to a determination if a crime had been committed, and they decided no charges were to be filed.
    Also please note, it said interrogation methods.


    So all you have done is shown that you failed to understand what you did read.

    And stop while you are ahead. U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon does not have the authority to declare anything a violation.

    You just go with your own fantastical interpretation and pretend it's the absolute truth, no matter what the reference actually says.

    That's hilarious.
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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Immoral? iLOL

    The procedures were designed not to run afoul of the law and they didn't.
    They were not illegal.
    This report doesn't change that.



    Your failure to understand that it wasn't a Constitutional argument is not my problem, but your's.
    I even went as far as to give you the proper context in which to frame your arguments (law or treaty), and yet you still haven't.


    It is your sophistry,
    Do you not even know what the word means?
    You are the one who introduced the fallacious Constitutional argument. That means you were engaged in sophistry.
    And since you can't admit that, even your rebuttals are sophistry.
    You and I see the world through 2 different lenses.

    Two different sets of values. I've read the Constitution enough times to understand what the document and the 8th Amendment declare, that no cruel and unusual punishments be inflicted.

    You are my polar opposite in that regard.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    You can think that, the reality however is very different IMHO. And their actions have been very useful.
    I can think that? Gee thanks. I think that because it is true, the reality is not different from that.
    It is not needed, nor was it needed to accomplish anything you think it has or was "very useful".
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    You just go with your own fantastical interpretation and pretend it's the absolute truth, no matter what the reference actually says.

    That's hilarious.
    You clearly are not able to understand the clearly wording of the Constitution, the article provided or even of that which can occur under international law.
    You are obviously uneducated in these areas.

    That isn't my problem but yours.

    Since you clearly didn't read what you yourself quoted, let me provided it for you again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Look at that.
    Obviously you don't know that your statement was false.
    No one can be tried outside of this Nation for (especially as no crime was committed). No one else has jurisdiction but the US.
    And what is a representative of our Justice department supposedly quoted as saying? (which is in line with what we already know)

    However, a Justice Department official said Wednesday the department did not intend to revisit its decision to not prosecute anyone for the interrogation methods. The official said the department had reviewed the committee's report and did not find any new information that would cause the investigation to be reopened.

    "Our inquiry was limited to a determination of whether prosecutable offenses were committed," the official said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss an investigation. "Importantly, our investigation was not intended to answer the broader questions regarding the propriety of the examined conduct."

    So the investigation was limited to a determination if a crime had been committed, and they decided no charges were to be filed.
    Also please note, it said interrogation methods.


    So all you have done is shown that you failed to understand what you did read.

    And stop while you are ahead. U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon does not have the authority to declare anything a violation.


    Your failure to understand that they found no prosecutable offenses in the interrogation methods is your own problem. Not mine. Your failure to realize that only leads to you making fantastical fanatical interpretations.


    But here is your chance to support your absurd claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    I did. Since the U.S. won't prosecute or extradite, that means whoever is involved better think twice about leaving the country if not under diplomatic cover.
    Go ahead and try to support that absurd claim.
    Proof that can happen.
    Last edited by Excon; 12-18-14 at 08:04 AM.
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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    You and I see the world through 2 different lenses.

    Two different sets of values. I've read the Constitution enough times to understand what the document and the 8th Amendment declare, that no cruel and unusual punishments be inflicted.

    You are my polar opposite in that regard.
    You are spewing nonsense.
    If we see things through two different lenses that would be because your prescription is off, as you clearly have established that you have no concept of what the 8th applies to.
    The 8th makes torture as punishment for a crime unconstitutional.
    Which was why your argument was and still is wrong.
    We did not use torture as a punishment, or as punishment for a crime, which is why your argument fell flat on it's face.
    Which has nothing to do with actually viewing things through different lenses.
    Either the argument applies or it doesn't. And in the case of your argument, it doesn't apply one bit.


    As you were already told, I gave you the proper context in which to frame your arguments (law or treaty).
    But even then, if you come to realize just how infirm your 8th Amendment argument is, and try to frame one under (law or treaty) our Justice Department has already decided there was no violation with the interrogation methods.

    However, a Justice Department official said Wednesday the department did not intend to revisit its decision to not prosecute anyone for the interrogation methods. The official said the department had reviewed the committee's report and did not find any new information that would cause the investigation to be reopened.

    "Our inquiry was limited to a determination of whether prosecutable offenses were committed," the official said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss an investigation. "Importantly, our investigation was not intended to answer the broader questions regarding the propriety of the examined conduct."

    So you have no valid argument.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    You are spewing nonsense.
    If we see things through two different lenses that would be because your prescription is off, as you clearly have established that you have no concept of what the 8th applies to.
    The 8th makes torture as punishment for a crime unconstitutional.
    Which was why your argument was and still is wrong.
    We did not use torture as a punishment, or as punishment for a crime, which is why your argument fell flat on it's face.
    Which has nothing to do with actually viewing things through different lenses.
    Either the argument applies or it doesn't. And in the case of your argument, it doesn't apply one bit.


    As you were already told, I gave you the proper context in which to frame your arguments (law or treaty).
    But even then, if you come to realize just how infirm your 8th Amendment argument is, and try to frame one under (law or treaty) our Justice Department has already decided there was no violation with the interrogation methods.

    However, a Justice Department official said Wednesday the department did not intend to revisit its decision to not prosecute anyone for the interrogation methods. The official said the department had reviewed the committee's report and did not find any new information that would cause the investigation to be reopened.

    "Our inquiry was limited to a determination of whether prosecutable offenses were committed," the official said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss an investigation. "Importantly, our investigation was not intended to answer the broader questions regarding the propriety of the examined conduct."

    So you have no valid argument.
    You suggest that "punishment" applies only to "a crime". Webster does not agree with you. "An act of punishing, or the state of being punished" It may be for a crime, or it may not. "To handle harshly, to injure"

    Nor does the 8th Amendment specify "punishment for a crime".

    You torture apologists are on desperately thin ice, and my guess is you're all aware of it. I'm going through the identical conversation with a good friend of mine who considers himself Mr. Constitution, and he was not even aware of the language of the 8th Amendment.

    Desperate men make desperately silly claims. Because of the subject matter, it is impossible to LOL. It is sad and pathetic.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    You suggest that "punishment" applies only to "a crime". Webster does not agree with you. "An act of punishing, or the state of being punished" It may be for a crime, or it may not. "To handle harshly, to injure"

    Nor does the 8th Amendment specify "punishment for a crime".

    You torture apologists are on desperately thin ice, and my guess is you're all aware of it. I'm going through the identical conversation with a good friend of mine who considers himself Mr. Constitution, and he was not even aware of the language of the 8th Amendment.

    Desperate men make desperately silly claims. Because of the subject matter, it is impossible to LOL. It is sad and pathetic.

    Yes your claim was desperate, silly, sad and pathetic. There was no Constitutional violation.

    What your friend may or may not think is irrelevant.
    What you think of what your friend supposedly indicated is also irrelevant.
    Neither are relevant to this discussion.

    And you thinking that Webster disagrees with me is also irrelevant.
    Punishment (in general) is something given for a perceived wrong.
    Interrogation is not punishment. Period.

    Secondly, this is a legal argument and not an in-general Websters definition argument.
    You were wrong for asserting such a flawed argument to begin with. And despite being told this is not a Constitutional argument and informed as to what would be an appropriate argument to make. (One of Law or Treaty.) you continued on insisting otherwise. Which was really quite silly.



    So now lets get on with the facts
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    You suggest that "punishment" applies only to "a crime".
    I didn't suggest anything. I clearly stated what it was.

    But since you obviously don't know and want to continue arguing this silliness ...

    INGRAHAM v. WRIGHT
    430 U.S. 651

    (1977)
    1. [...]


    [...]

    (a) The history of the Eighth Amendment and the decisions of this Court make it clear that the prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment was designed to protect those convicted of crime. Pp. 664-668.

    [...]


    FindLaw | Cases and Codes

    And if you do not understand what the U.S. stands for in the above site reference. It is a U.S. Supreme Court decision.

    So stop this misunderstanding you have in regards to the Eighth Amendment. It's intent is as punishment for crimes committed. Period.
    And if your friend is real, inform him of this so he also wont be wrong in the future.


    As for being on thin ice?
    The ones decrying these actions as torture are the ones on thin ice.
    As already shown, the Justice department already looked into the "interrogation methods" and found nothing to pursue.
    Last edited by Excon; 12-21-14 at 11:43 AM.
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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Yes your claim was desperate, silly, sad and pathetic. There was no Constitutional violation.

    What your friend may or may not think is irrelevant.
    What you think of what your friend supposedly indicated is also irrelevant.
    Neither are relevant to this discussion.

    And you thinking that Webster disagrees with me is also irrelevant.
    Punishment (in general) is something given for a perceived wrong.
    Interrogation is not punishment. Period.

    Secondly, this is a legal argument and not an in-general Websters definition argument.
    You were wrong for asserting such a flawed argument to begin with. And despite being told this is not a Constitutional argument and informed as to what would be an appropriate argument to make. (One of Law or Treaty.) you continued on insisting otherwise. Which was really quite silly.



    So now lets get on with the facts

    I didn't suggest anything. I clearly stated what it was.

    But since you obviously don't know and want to continue arguing this silliness ...

    INGRAHAM v. WRIGHT
    430 U.S. 651

    (1977)
    1. [...]


    [...]

    (a) The history of the Eighth Amendment and the decisions of this Court make it clear that the prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment was designed to protect those convicted of crime. Pp. 664-668.

    [...]


    FindLaw | Cases and Codes

    And if you do not understand what the U.S. stands for in the above site reference. It is a U.S. Supreme Court decision.

    So stop this misunderstanding you have in regards to the Eighth Amendment. It's intent is as punishment for crimes committed. Period.
    And if your friend is real, inform him of this so he also wont be wrong in the future.


    As for being on thin ice?
    The ones decrying these actions as torture are the ones on thin ice.
    As already shown, the Justice department already looked into the "interrogation methods" and found nothing to pursue.
    So why don't the local police waterboard robbery suspects? Totally cool, according to your 'interpretation'.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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