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Thread: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

  1. #281
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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Now don't get me wrong. Torture is not acceptable to our society.

    But try not to look like a hypocrite.
    You know most of the European countries' agencies and many governments knew of the renditions and a good number participated. I am not sure of Italy and am not enough interested to research it at this time, but a number of them like Germany delivered prisoners to countries like Syria or Pakistan where agents from the countries actually have been reported to have interviewed the deported. This is taking a very different stand on the moral issue, indeed. You do know that when professor Wolffson proposed discussing what torture is, what interrogation methods should be allowed and which forbidden his employer the government fobade him to continue perusing the questions in public. Yes, a very interesting standpoint.

    And the moral outrage you say drove the Italian political judges is really skrewy, when you consider that the Italians let over 3.500 men, women and kids drown while trying to reach the Italian coast this year.

    So get real. Get off the moral arguments and try to think about this as an interesting legal problem. How do you want to define torture you profess to abhor? How heavy would you say and how short are we to allow the chain connecting the convicts' ankles to be before we want to call it torture. How long are agents allowed to interrogate the suspect at a time?
    So your argument was that everybody does it, so it's OK? And since torture is hard to define, it's not definable so therefore there was no torture?

    All I can tell you is that we all know what the CIA did was torture.
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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The UN, as it is, needs to be disbanded.
    That would be possible if there was a better solution than the UN but as we do not have any such a thing and it is very unlikely that something like that can be formed again, this is what we have and all we can strive to do is make it better than it is now (not very difficult in some areas but still, there is no alternative).
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    So your argument was that everybody does it, so it's OK? And since torture is hard to define, it's not definable so therefore there was no torture?

    All I can tell you is that we all know what the CIA did was torture.
    Not at all. Only that it is smart to know, what one is talking about. What is certainly not smart is saying that torture should be allowed, because hard to define.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    That would be possible if there was a better solution than the UN but as we do not have any such a thing and it is very unlikely that something like that can be formed again, this is what we have and all we can strive to do is make it better than it is now (not very difficult in some areas but still, there is no alternative).
    I am not sure there is no possible alternative. But it was widely discussed in the 1990s into the 2000s and the UN is most probably our best chance to reorganize international security.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    In WWII the USA hanged Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American POWs. That's a fact.
    Waterboarding was among many charges that they were tried for. Also a fact.

    BTW... was waterboarding effective for the Japanese? Did they get good intel from the practice?

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    So your argument was that everybody does it, so it's OK? And since torture is hard to define, it's not definable so therefore there was no torture?

    All I can tell you is that we all know what the CIA did was torture.
    Well that's just great....And the next time we have an attack, and we ask the CIA to get information out of our attackers, I guess we can just forget it...Good plan....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well that's just great....And the next time we have an attack, and we ask the CIA to get information out of our attackers, I guess we can just forget it...Good plan....
    Well, since according to the CIA, torture didn't work at all... I think we will be ok.

    If you want to see a detailed report of how we know this, look here.

    http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/...ill-lying-ctd/

    But I think we both know you're not really interested in objective information here.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Well, since according to the CIA, torture didn't work at all... I think we will be ok.

    If you want to see a detailed report of how we know this, look here.

    John Brennan Is Still Lying, Ctd « The Dish

    But I think we both know you're not really interested in objective information here.
    At best you are cherry picking about anyone in the CIA and the effectiveness of EIT...As for "objective information" you think that by posting a liberal bomb thrower like Sullivan that shows that you are....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    At best you are cherry picking about anyone in the CIA and the effectiveness of EIT...As for "objective information" you think that by posting a liberal bomb thrower like Sullivan that shows that you are....
    If one looks at the polls, most Americans are not even paying attention to the report and 69% of them say it shouldn't have been released. Only on political sites like this one is the report even being discussed.

    The CIA can't win. Right after 9-11 everyone was saying they should have been more active, if they were more active and done their job better, perhaps 9-11 would not have occurred. Now years after the fact, those same people are saying the CIA has been too active. Heck that is what everyone wanted them to be.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    At best you are cherry picking about anyone in the CIA and the effectiveness of EIT...As for "objective information" you think that by posting a liberal bomb thrower like Sullivan that shows that you are....
    Like I said, you won't look at the link. Your interest in this issue is purely partisan.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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