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Thread: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    There is nothing in the Constitution that supports any “right” to have someone be forced to do business with you who does not want to do business with you. Such a “right” would indeed be in direct conflict with freedom of association, which is strongly implied in the First Amendment, and in the cases under dispute, it is in conflict with freedom of religion, which is explicitly affirmed in the First Amendment.

    I find no rational basis for arguing that phony made-up “rights” can ever legitimately trump genuine Constitutionally-affirmed rights.
    I agree, and yet here you are implying that there is some constitutionally affirmed "right" to do business with the public. There isn't.

    If you're so homophobic that you don't want to risk being forced to do business with gays, it's no problem: you are free to choose not to do business with anyone.
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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    I agree, and yet here you are implying that there is some constitutionally affirmed "right" to do business with the public. There isn't.

    If you're so homophobic that you don't want to risk being forced to do business with gays, it's no problem: you are free to choose not to do business with anyone.
    Every man needs to be able to make a living. Although not explicitly stated in the COnstitution, I think it stands to reason that the ability to make a living through honest means is one of the unenumerated rights mentioned in the Ninth Amendment. Certainly, a much stronger case can be made for this right than for a “right” to have someone be forced to do business with you who does not want to do business with you.

    And there is certainly nothing in the Constitution that suggests nor allows any authority on the part of government to compel any citizen to give up his First Amendment rights to freedom of association and freedom of religion, as a condition of being allowed to make an honest living.
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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Every man needs to be able to make a living. Although not explicitly stated in the COnstitution, I think it stands to reason that the ability to make a living through honest means is one of the unenumerated rights mentioned in the Ninth Amendment. Certainly, a much stronger case can be made for this right than for a “right” to have someone be forced to do business with you who does not want to do business with you.

    And there is certainly nothing in the Constitution that suggests nor allows any authority on the part of government to compel any citizen to give up his First Amendment rights to freedom of association and freedom of religion, as a condition of being allowed to make an honest living.
    Where is your constitutional right to discriminate? Because unless you have that, then congress is free (as they have done) to pass a significant body of legislation that prohibits businesses from discriminating based on certain classes. The courts have repeatedly found that the state has a compelling interest in doing so. Hence a business open to the public cannot serve whites only.

    I find it interesting that your initial argument is that made up rights don't trump rights enumerated in the constitution. And your defense of that is that every man needs to be able to make a living, therefore choosing who you want to do business with is an unenumerated right and moreover that unenumerated right should trump the right of anyone else to be treated equally. Kind of a tortured defense, no?

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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Every man needs to be able to make a living. Although not explicitly stated in the COnstitution, I think it stands to reason that the ability to make a living through honest means is one of the unenumerated rights mentioned in the Ninth Amendment. Certainly, a much stronger case can be made for this right than for a “right” to have someone be forced to do business with you who does not want to do business with you.
    And most men (and women) who make a living aren't doing business with the general public at all. They're employees. Or they sell a product or service that only faceless corporations would want. Hell, some of them are even professional gamblers. You'll have to do considerably better than this argument.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

  5. #65
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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    They intended this overreaching law to be virtually impossible to undo.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...-HEBH-5958.pdf

    1 Sec. 7. If any provision of this act or any application of
    2 such a provision to any person or circumstance is held to be
    3 unconstitutional, the remainder of this act and the application of
    4 the provision to any other person or circumstance is not affected.



    This law is also a direct attack on the secular structure of the US Constitution, and the government. It would seem that any secular law is in their opinion anti-religious and therefore discriminatory. But if it isnt secular then what will it be instead; nonsecular?

    1 (b) Laws neutral toward religion may burden religious exercise
    2 as surely as laws intended to interfere with religious exercise.
    3 (c) Government should not substantially burden religious
    4 exercise without compelling justification.



    The law is so loosely written that it could easily be abused. Basically anyone that wants to can use this law even if they have no grounds to use it.

    6 (b) "Exercise of religion" means the practice or observance of
    7 religion, including an act or refusal to act, that is substantially
    8 motivated by a sincerely held religious belief, whether or not
    9 compelled by or central to a system of religious belief.


    If this law was enacted and truly disallowed neutral laws, it would create a court overload, as many religions complained about specific non neutral laws.

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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    links? proof? facts?
    It makes him unhappy. That's all he needs.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    1.)Every man needs to be able to make a living. Although not explicitly stated in the COnstitution, I think it stands to reason that the ability to make a living through honest means is one of the unenumerated rights mentioned in the Ninth Amendment. Certainly, a much stronger case can be made for this right than for a “right” to have someone be forced to do business with you who does not want to do business with you.

    2.) And there is certainly nothing in the Constitution that suggests nor allows any authority on the part of government to compel any citizen to give up his First Amendment rights to freedom of association and freedom of religion, as a condition of being allowed to make an honest living.
    1.) you must be on the wrong thread because again theres nothing here that stops a man from making a living nor is there any right to force someone to do business with you. If you are on the right thread those two strawmen completely fail and nobody honest will take them seriously.
    2.) make that 3 failed strawmen since this isnt happening either.

    If you have a real argument you cant back up with facts, logic, rights and legality please do so, making stuff up wont work.
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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It makes him unhappy. That's all he needs.
    yep thats what he seems to base his views of right and wrong on. . . . feelings and nothing else matters. Not laws, not the constitution, not rights just his feelings/opinions.
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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    yep thats what he seems to base his views of right and wrong on. . . . feelings and nothing else matters. Not laws, not the constitution, not rights just his feelings/opinions.
    That's how most theists operate, pure emotion, zero rational thought.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    It absolutely is. To force someone to engage in an association in which he would not choose to engage is a violation of his freedom of association.
    Should an EMT be allowed to let a gay person die because their religion says to let them die?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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