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Thread: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

  1. #21
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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    And people are proposing that the law protect the individual rights of those who provide services.
    No it doesn't.

    If you beliefs aren't based on religion the law does not shield such actions. The proposed laws are providing special privileges to hide only behind religious beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Say some average person, or even a staunch pro-gay homosexual couple runs a sign business and WBC comes by and asks them to design signs with offensive, hateful, and slur filled language against the LGBT community to use at the protesting the funeral of a well known homosexual person that passed away. The individuals who own the business do not want to do this, they don't want to put their labor or services into advancing something they believe is wrong. However, because WBC claims to be a religious organization should they have the right to the sign makers services and force them to provide that service when they as individuals believe it is wrong?
    Under the proposed law, the business owner is still required to provide services to WBC because they can't discriminate based on the religious views of the customer, they would still be required to provide such signage to WBC. Just because they find WBC's message offense does not mean it is their (the owners) deeply held religious belief and they don't have to provide service.


    ***************************

    You appear to be trying to intimate that the law provides an exception to all business owners to refuse any customer. It doesn't, it only provides special privileges if the owner claims it's based on their religion.

    Take for example two business owners. Once says "I don't like blacks, therefore I don't serve blacks." Such a position is not based on a religious belief an there is no exception under the proposed law. The other business owner says "I have a deeply held religious belief that I should serve blacks." - that owner receives an exception because they used religion as the basis. And before you say - "discrimination against blacks isn't a tenent of any religion" - I'll point out the law clearly says that a persons religious beliefs DO NOT need to be based on any organized religion, it is their personal beliefs that matter.


    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...-HEBH-5958.pdf


    >>>>

  2. #22
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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate' - Fox 2 News Headlines
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    i doubt this even gets voted on in the senate but even if it does it will eventually be thrown out by a higher court since it violates the constitution.
    It would be funny, if not for how destructive it has proven, the way those of you on the wrong think that the Constitution has to be blatantly violated, in order to uphold it.

    Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, and Freedom of Association, you will happily throw under the bus, in order to uphold a nonexistent “right” to be an immoral sexual pervert and to force your wickedness on those who want no part of it.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  3. #23
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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    I was fretting about this the other day, since you KNOW the law is targeted at gays rights. In particular, dozens of cities in MI have anti discrimination laws going back decades, and now all some asshole landlord or employer has to do is put up a "No gays allowed" sign under the guise of their 'loving' god? **** that!!

    Not to mention this is complete imbecility and will backfire tremendously, just as soon as atheist/satanist puts up "no christians allowed" or white supremacists put "no blacks allowed"

    Religion is an excuse to believe or hide behind any crazy **** imaginable, and there is already the 1st amendment protecting it from real persecution.

    Now in the actual case law, only a handful of times have these "RFRA" succeeded. Almost no court ever accepts that excuse and no bigots out there have the balls to challenge city ordinance, just to keep out the gays/jews/whatever. So i'm not as worried now that i see that, but still completely disgusted by my state for allowing this. They think they can slap on the "religious freedom" horse**** and won't get the same backlash as janet brew/arizona, but the media is picking this up now.

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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    i dont think they REALLY want it to go that far IMO this is guaranteed to fail in the higher courts
    some think this SCOTUS wouldn't toss these laws after "hobby lobby" but that decision was tailored towards contraceptives specifically. If any lower court sides with a bigoted landlord or employer who violates the existing city/state anti discrimination law, then yeah, federal courts will strike it down.

    Michigan's government and citizenry has a "proud" history of spending its days creating discriminatory laws that get tossed out as unconstitutional. Gay marriage bans, DP benefits for employees, joint adoption, RFRA. Wonder when the hysterical christian persecution complex ends

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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No, actually, they can't because the proposed law specifies RELIGIOUS BELIEF as a reason to discriminate. Sexual orientation is not a religious belief, hence gays couldn't choose to discriminate against gay-hating Christians because they do not do so on religious grounds.
    They could just claim to be atheist or whatever, and their are already gay couples in mississippi who have sued, claiming their religious views are they can marry and the government ban infringes on their religious freedom under the new law. So see how *easily* laws can backfire when crafted by complete morons.

    I'm tempted to open up a store next to mississippi capitol building with a sign "no politicians allowed - my religion forbids them"

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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    I suspect it's more like the first volley in a longer battle: the religious zealots are probably trying to get this issue in front of the SCOTUS via a new state law.
    SCOTUS hasn't ruled they can't pass such a law, so that would be incredibly stupid goal. No, they just want the homos to all starve on the streets without any legal recourse to housing/employment discrimination.

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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by tomkat364 View Post
    There's another thread about this already, and I know from prior threads that we won't see eye to eye, but I'll give it a shot...

    Doctors have rights. Patients have rights. You seem to think that the patient's rights to get something outweigh the doctor's rights to choose what services they provide. Your viewpoint suggests that doctors are "slaves" to the morality of their patients, and that is certainly not "equal rights."
    Aside from that, this "discrimination" BS the article discusses has nothing to do with the actual topic being addressed by the law. Doctors are asked to do things they find unethical. It isn't so much about the patient as the practice. This is not meant to say that people will be denied emergency care (as that is federally mandated), but that a doctor can CHOOSE not to treat a certain condition or provide certain treatments on an ethical basis. i.e. morning after pill, conception services, etc.

    The patient can always find another doctor.
    The patient has no rights if the doctor can just walk away, and what about emergency care? If the patient is unconscious? Yeah laws against it but this law contradicts that. This is incredibly heartless, not to mention the "doctor" would be violating hippocratic oath to refuse treatment to *anyone* Do you even think of this? No, because no med school would ever accept someone with your attitude. That's also the problem with our **** government these days. No doctors or similarly highly educated people in government, so this would not even occur to them.

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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Prohibiting people their ability to act on their conscience is the worst form of discrimination imaginable.
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. ” -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    [DISCLAIMER: I think Public Accommodation laws should be repealed, not special exceptions for someone to claim "religion" and hide behind that shield. Two people want to discriminate againts blacks. One claims a personal religious belief and they can do so. The other says "I just don't like blacks" and they can be found in violation of anti-discrimination laws. I don't see the difference.]
    There is an important point here. When government has gone so far in imposing a particular law, that it becomes necessary to carve out exceptions to that law where upholding it otherwise clearly violates the rights of some individuals, then I think this should be taken as a sign that the law, as a whole, is unjust and ought to be repealed or otherwise overturned. Such a law really cannot justly exist under our Constitution; either it is allowed to fully stand, and apply equally to all, in which case some people's rights are violated by it; or else, if exceptions are carved out to exempt some individuals to prevent their rights from being violated, then it is violating the Fourteenth Amendment requirement for equal protection under the law.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Pending state religious freedom act a 'license to discriminate'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    It would be funny, if not for how destructive it has proven, the way those of you on the wrong think that the Constitution has to be blatantly violated, in order to uphold it.

    Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, and Freedom of Association, you will happily throw under the bus, in order to uphold a nonexistent “right” to be an immoral sexual pervert and to force your wickedness on those who want no part of it.
    Freedom of Religion does not mean that human sacrifices are constitutionally protected. Nor does it mean that someone who does business with the public gets to discriminate against groups of customers.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

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