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Gorbachev calls for U.S.-Russia summit to defrost ties

US Conservative said:
Freedoms unfair so, give your liberties to the state. Capitalism sucks, central planning will be a utopia. Hey at least you admit you'd like to see this nation taken down a peg, Obama wont do that.

How about you move to a "country", and leave us American's be?
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i don't respond to strawman fallacies. if you strawman again, that will end our discussion.
 
US Conservative said:
We both know what you want, but Im the only one who will say it.
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believe whatever you like. if you strawman again, i'm through wasting time discussing this topic with you.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I do believe Russia and the US need to sit down with a broad agenda. I think it should cover everything from Ukraine, Russia roll in Eastern Europe, sanctions, economic influence, the US roll in Eastern Europe, etc.
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They have sat down and talked. Many, many times. Even Merkel is befuddled and stated that Lavrov seems to live in some alternate reality.
 
Helix said:
first off, the Crimea thing is Europe's problem.
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This isn't about Crimea. This is mostly about Putin launching a proxy war to win back a former Soviet state against a US ally.


secondly, we need to stop trying to **** up Russia's economy. i mean, come on, we don't need another cold war, and we definitely don't want to destabilize Russia.
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If another Cold War starts, we won't be the ones who started it. As for destabilizing Russia, again...not our fault.
 
Roadvirus said:
This isn't about Crimea. This is mostly about Putin launching a proxy war to win back a former Soviet state against a US ally.




If another Cold War starts, we won't be the ones who started it. As for destabilizing Russia, again...not our fault.
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it's not our concern, either. we can only make the problem worse y getting involved. if Europe wants Crimea and Ukraine, then it needs to open a dialogue with Russia.

BTW, are you heading north, by chance? ;)
 
Helix said:
it's not our concern, either. we can only make the problem worse y getting involved. if Europe wants Crimea and Ukraine, then it needs to open a dialogue with Russia.
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Ukraine/Russia regressed from dialogue to open war some time ago. Right about when Putin decided to invade a sovereign nation.
 
US Conservative said:
Ukraine/Russia regressed from dialogue to open war some time ago. Right about when Putin decided to invade a sovereign nation.
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if it's important to stop Crimea from becoming part of Russia instead of becoming part of Europe, then the regional hegemon should open up talks with Russia. we are not the regional hegemon in Europe.
 
Helix said:
if it's important to stop Crimea from becoming part of Russia instead of becoming part of Europe, then the regional hegemon should open up talks with Russia. we are not the regional hegemon in Europe.
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They have, we have, and Russia came in with tanks. Talking has failed, and you are going to need to understand that at some point the time for talking is done.
 
US Conservative said:
They have, we have, and Russia came in with tanks. Talking has failed, and you are going to need to understand that at some point the time for talking is done.
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so what course of action do you advocate?
 
Helix said:
so what course of action do you advocate?
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Soft power projection into Ukraine, by western forces, and severe economic sanctions. Help to facilitate alternative sources of gas from the west. Let Russia be ostracized for some time.

If Putin wants to play mini-Stalin, let him learn the hard way.
 
US Conservative said:
Soft power projection into Ukraine, by western forces, and severe economic sanctions. Help to facilitate alternative sources of gas from the west. Let Russia be ostracized for some time.

If Putin wants to play mini-Stalin, let him learn the hard way.
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yeah, that sounds like a big pile of interventionist **** that will lead to a cold or hot war. no thanks.

"soft power projection." come on. do you even believe this ****? please tell me you're just being a keyboard commando.
 
Helix said:
yeah, that sounds like a big pile of interventionist **** that will lead to a cold or hot war. no thanks.

"soft power projection." come on. do you even believe this ****? please tell me you're just being a keyboard commando.
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Appeasement emboldens the aggressor. Welcome to the world.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Soft power projection?

What's that, a pillow fight?

Economic sanctions are working. We need to keep them up.
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Examples of soft power projection include:
Securing sea lanes of communication: the protection of shipping lanes from attack by hostile states or irregular threats.
Non-combatant evacuation operations: the evacuation of citizens or friendly third-country civilians from a foreign country when they are endangered by war or civil unrest.
Humanitarian response: the use of military forces abroad to assist in the aftermath of a natural disaster.
Peacekeeping: military operations designed to support diplomatic efforts to reach a long-term political settlement to an ongoing dispute.
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Power projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
US Conservative said:
Thats only a start. Like I said, appeasement makes things worse.
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no kidding. we should totally boots on the ground it with Russia. we can invade sometime in late June.
 
Helix said:
so what course of action do you advocate?
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Everything up to a military presence in Ukraine (ours and other NATO members) to make it clear this aggressive behavior wont be tolerated.
Sadly, that should have been done some time ago, and we have a weak POTUS. A leader would have lead, not Obama. Putin can read him like an open book.
 
US Conservative said:
Everything up to a military presence in Ukraine (ours and other NATO members) to make it clear this aggressive behavior wont be tolerated.
Sadly, that should have been done some time ago, and we have a weak POTUS. A leader would have lead, not Obama. Putin can read him like an open book.
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well, kudos for admitting that you support boots on the ground interventionism. most people would back away from that and only support sanctions. you have to be pretty dedicated to support hot war with Russia. wrong, but dedicated.
 
Helix said:
well, kudos for admitting that you support boots on the ground interventionism. most people would back away from that and only support sanctions. you have to be pretty dedicated to support hot war with Russia. wrong, but dedicated.
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It wont be a hot war, unless Russia (and its "militias") sends its proxy forces west. Letting them go on unopposed (as they are doing in Sweden, etc) is a recipe for disaster.
 
US Conservative said:
We wont be invading anyone, unlike Russia. Weren't you complaining about strawmen earlier?
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For some people there is no nuance and it's either War or Not War. Sending troops to Kiev and to reinforce the Ukrainians along the Dnieper isn't an intermediate step to be taken as a means of establishing a trip-wire it's obviously WAR.
 
Sherman123 said:
For some people there is no nuance and it's either War or Not War. Sending troops to Kiev and to reinforce the Ukrainians along the Dnieper isn't an intermediate step to be taken as a means of establishing a trip-wire it's obviously WAR.
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Its already a war, or at least a proxy war.
 
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