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Thread: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

  1. #731
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Absolutely Henry...But line item won't be used on this crap...You think Obama will line out Obamacare? Really?
    Line item veto, as to how I personally consider issues--one at a time.

    My point was that you seemed to suggest that I supported Obamacare because I am happy that my tax dollars were for once spent properly in preparing the report.

    I don't support Obamacare and never have.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    No, I am a fan of the "line item veto".

    I am able to separate issues, to study and judge them individually.

    That is, I have opposed Obamacare since its inception, and I'm hugely disappointed in the "conservative" Roberts Court for having given it birth.

    How 'bout you?
    That is a dangerous idea. It simply gives the POTUS (actually the party that holds that office) the ability to require a supermajority for the other party to get anything done. Imagine an immigration reform "bipartisan compromise" that has both amnesty and E-verify, which passes by a narrow margin, and later the POTUS simply "lines out" the E-verify portion requiring a supermajority to override that veto.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Good points 78640.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The "183 times" quote was but one inaccuracy...The entire op-ed attempt at journalism is just proof that we don't have an objective press, and people like you buy into the propaganda.
    When various journalists have volunteered to get taped getting the waterboard, we count that as ONE because not one that I've seen has lasted more than a few seconds, and I've seen no one have that repeated. It's the same way the 183 was counted.

    How should it be counted? Let's say you're on the receiving end, the water was poured over your face, you're unable to breath, ingest a bunch of water, choke, gag, vomit, before they quit pouring, and then they let you rest for a few minutes before doing it again. It would make a helluva lot of difference whether that "application" happened once that day or 40 times. Apparently, the right wing apologists want to count 1 "application" and 40 as equivalent, and just count it as one "waterboard." Which number better reflects what happened? One or 40? If it was you, I can promise it's 40.

    BTW, the report is extensively documented with hundreds or thousands of footnotes. Every important statement is supported by an original document. It's legitimate journalism to quote from that kind of document - that's what journalists DO. And as many have pointed out, I've seen almost no allegations that any facts cited in the report are false. And if they're false, then the underlying documents contemporaneously prepared by CIA or other officials and cited in the report were false.
    Last edited by JasperL; 12-15-14 at 11:35 AM.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    As per the report I posted earlier KSM was waterboarded in 5 sessions. The only reason to break down each one of those sessions and count every single instance that water was poured within that session is to demonize the interrogators, and blow up what really went on in the wake of 9/11. Especially now, this far out from that time, where people forget the emotion of losing 3,000 people, and the fear that everyone felt in the days after.

    As someone already pointed out either here, or in another of the rehash threads, we as American's bitched that the CIA didn't catch this attack, then when WE turned them loose to make sure that it never happened again, WE bitch that they went too far...So your making sure that we never get the type of intel that has kept America from another mass attack, and helped in locating, and killing OBL...That's just great....So, the next attack, the blood is on liberal panty waste's hands.
    Now it's official that KSM wasn't the only one, and that waterboarding wasn't the only form of sharpened interrogation that took place, so we know now that our government, the one that is supposed to stick up for human rights and stand for freedom and limited government and yadayadayada actually suborned tor.. I mean sharpened interrogation of prisoners.

    What we don't know is that said torture actually produced any useful information.

    Now that the report is out, the only refuge of the "Oh, our government would never do that" folks is to say that the report was produced by Democrats, and is ipso facto flawed, and/or that the end justified the means and kept us safe.

    And that's simply a crock.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    As per the report I posted earlier KSM was waterboarded in 5 sessions.
    He was waterboarded in five sessions in a little more than 24 hours. And many other times before and following that day. 15 total sessions.

    The only reason to break down each one of those sessions and count every single instance that water was poured within that session is to demonize the interrogators, and blow up what really went on in the wake of 9/11. Especially now, this far out from that time, where people forget the emotion of losing 3,000 people, and the fear that everyone felt in the days after.
    No, it's to reflect the extent of what we did.

    As someone already pointed out either here, or in another of the rehash threads, we as American's bitched that the CIA didn't catch this attack, then when WE turned them loose to make sure that it never happened again, WE bitch that they went too far...So your making sure that we never get the type of intel that has kept America from another mass attack, and helped in locating, and killing OBL...That's just great....So, the next attack, the blood is on liberal panty waste's hands.
    People 'bitched' because the information was available to the various agencies, but because of a lack of information sharing, or people dropping the ball, that information wasn't acted on or pieced together. The problems cited after 9/11 were primarily that the CIA and other people tasked with the job of evaluating intel did a poor job, not that they lacked the information.

    And one big part of the debate is whether or not the torture program produced valuable intelligence not available through traditional means. The bulk of the evidence is it did not and what little information might have been obtained was dwarfed by the damage the revelations of our rendition and torture program did to the overall effort.

    Lots of quotes from people very involved in fighting terrorism here but this captures it best:

    Former Navy Judge Advocate General Admiral John Hutson says:

    Fundamentally, those kinds of techniques are ineffective. If the goal is to gain actionable intelligence, and it is, and if that’s important, and it is, then we have to use the techniques that are most effective. Torture is the technique of choice of the lazy, stupid and pseudo-tough.
    As perhaps isn't surprising, few of them expressed views opposing torture on moral or ethical grounds, and instead based it on the fact that it doesn't work and when discovered by the enemy does far more harm than the meager gains from any information obtained.

    As the senior interrogator in Iraq for a task force charged with hunting down Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, the former Al Qaida leader and mass murderer, I listened time and time again to captured foreign fighters cite the torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo as their main reason for coming to Iraq to fight.
    ...
    I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.

    Finally, the blood is on the hands of those who made the policy choices to do certain things, not on those who revealed it.

  7. #737
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation amid warnings of backlash | Fox News

    A Democrat-led Senate panel released a scathing report Tuesday on CIA interrogation practices amid warnings from lawmakers and some within the Obama administration that the findings could "endanger the lives of Americans" all over the world.

    Ah, the left. Politics above all.
    Article17 of The Geneva Convention says it all. The CIA was in violation.
    "Being President doesn't change who you are, it reveals who you are"

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    If only, but it seems mostly we're just spending trillions of dollars, 10's of thousands of American lives to support an infinity war that pretty much just makes breeding grounds for groups like ISIS.
    ISIS didn't breed from US control of the area. ISIS was created due to a vacuum of control that was the result of US withdrawal from the region. Islamist groups are springing up all over Libya for the same reason - "lead from behind" and "do as little as possible" turned out to be really, really, really, ****ty strategy.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    Article17 of The Geneva Convention says it all. The CIA was in violation.
    Those who fight in civilian clothing do not have Geneva protections, as they deliberately choose to place non-combatants in greater danger.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, does that mean they've been perceived as being successful for the past 14 years?
    On and off. They plummeted from 06-09, broadly speaking, but recovered and made up lost ground since.

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