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Thread: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're just factually wrong. Waterboarding has always been torture. We've considered it that and so does the rest of the world.

    And I did wear those wings, which means I'm more than a weaker minded lacky. I think. I ask questions. I think critically. I can read and know our past. I listen when the military itself reports this is a bad idea. A true solider knows war is to be avoided when possible, that it is a saddness and not something to be cheered. Soldiers go to war reluctantly because they no the cost. And they know tortue us wrong, especially when we torture innocent people. And we did torture innocent people, not to mention that many had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq did not help with that attack. Too many speak in mindlessly generalized terms as you did above.

    One more thing, if you live long enough, you may learn that your bluster is not convincing. Such blood lust is not justice, and others won't react in fear, but instead intensify their efforts. I pray you live long enough to learn better.
    Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation... meltdown
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation... meltdown
    Not even close.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncensored2008 View Post
    At the moment you have to start making $hit up, you know you have lost.

    I did not accuse the democrats of conspiring with AQ - you made that up. I said that DiFi, the outgoing chairman of the Senate intelligence committee, comes close to treason with her blatant aid and comfort to the enemy. What is it precisely, that you cannot grasp in this?
    I guess I got you confused with the other "Uncensored2008" who said this:

    "Clearly the democrats view Republicans as their enemy, and apparently willing to craft an alliance with Al Qaeda to attack the Republicans.
    My apologies!

    And all you've done so far is assert without the slightest explanation that she's committed treason. It's really not enough to assert it - generally if you're going to lob an incendiary charge like that, you'd tell us the basis for it.

    There is no practical gain for the nation in releasing a hatchet job at this time. It certainly does not enhance the security of the nation, exactly the opposite. The ONLY result of this is a propaganda tool for Islamists. Feinstein, bitter over the humiliating defeat her shameful party suffered in the last election, sought revenge on the nation by arming the Islamists with propaganda fodder that will damage this nation for years. DiFi never contacted or conspired with anyone other than her fellow democrats, but with an angst toward a nation who rejected them so strong that she threw a juicy bone to America's most dangerous and deadly enemy.
    I don't agree. There is no practical gain in burying the sins of our past, which is what you seem to think is the only legitimate option, and anyone who doesn't agree is committing treason.

    Besides, the report has been in process for years, begun when the democrats had control of the WH, the House and Senate. Did you think they'd spend 6 years and then bury the report. If not, and you expected a release, then how in the hell do you conclude that the release that's been in process for a year or so is related to the losses in November? It's a rhetorical question - you're a blind partisan so see all things through that lens...

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rentoc View Post
    Crimes against Humanity?!! lol, that's funny.

    Waterboarding IS NOT torture, if you really wore those wings you would understand that.

    We should have tortured them. We should have executed them on live TV and showed the world that we are not playing around anymore. That we don't care what they think of us and that if you are an enemy of this country, attack this nation in anyway, or assist those that do, you will suffer the consequences of your actions. REALLY SUFFER!!!
    Poe's Law example - can't tell if this is serious or not. If it is serious, then it's a shame you have so little regard for your country.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    meh
    CIA has mellowed out, only smoking , instead of smoking and drinking.
    only down to torture, instead of asassinations

    Studies in Intelligence: New Articles from The CIA's In-House Journal

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    That is why we need to establish a robust global system with a general system of security for populations is commonly upheld.
    Good Idea!

    So..... who do you think is going to pony up for this brave new world?

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, that's a reason not to run around making vacuums.
    I would concur. Instead we should seek to push hostile elements from the critical spaces that they currently control or influence.

    And that doesn't mean that we should constantly have imperial troops everywhere.
    Unfortunately, it does mean that we need to maintain a forward-leaning defense posture. For example, were you to pull the 5th Fleet from Bahrain, or the 7th Fleet out of the Pacific, you would create massive vacuums that belligerents would rush to fill.

    But we cannot do this for infinity, or rather our infinity war requires that we move about to engage other actors
    It's not us who decided to engage in a multi-generational war - it was them. War's don't end when one side gets' bored of the whole thing and decides to go home and watch movies instead, it requires both actors to cease hostilities.

    And we can, in fact, sustain our defense spending pretty much indefinitely at this point - increase it, even. Defense isn't what's driving the deficit, our burgeoning entitlements are.

    When we do, because we made the vacuum in the first place, because we do not try to solve issues,
    That is incorrect. We created space for ourselves and the possibility that later we could create vacuums by withdrawing precisely because we were trying to solve issues. For example, the U.S. has a fleet in Bahrain not least to keep the Iranians from holding the worlds' oil sea-lanes hostage (that's us solving an issue), and we stationed troops in the Middle East for decades in order to help keep Israel and Egypt from going to war again (that's us solving an issue), and we have troops helping the Iraqi's now so that they can more effectively combat a terrorist-state (that's us helping to solve an issue).

    We don't deploy because something looks pretty on a map - we deploy explicitly to solve issues.

    because we're moving about in the area to engage other theaters, naturally we leave behind environments ideal for breeding terrorism.
    You cannot move around in a single area to engage other theaters. That's like saying that you are going to move around within your town in order to move to the next country.

    But it's clear, we cannot keep up this style of intervention and solve the issue.
    A) we can and
    B) to the extent that they are solvable, we can definitely be a part of the solution. Certainly our absence only makes these issues worse.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I would concur. Instead we should seek to push hostile elements from the critical spaces that they currently control or influence.
    "We" should? And isn't it a bit difficult to figure out who are the "hostile elements" we should push out and who we should allow in those newly purged spaces?

    It's not us who decided to engage in a multi-generational war - it was them. War's don't end when one side gets' bored of the whole thing and decides to go home and watch movies instead, it requires both actors to cease hostilities.
    Well, it was sort of us who decided to meddle in that region. I suppose one could say we need to keep a permanent presence there for oil or to protect Israel, but that's a choice we made.

    And we can, in fact, sustain our defense spending pretty much indefinitely at this point - increase it, even. Defense isn't what's driving the deficit, our burgeoning entitlements are.
    Defense certainly contributes to the deficit - it's a quarter or so of the budget.

    That is incorrect. We created space for ourselves and the possibility that later we could create vacuums by withdrawing precisely because we were trying to solve issues. For example, the U.S. has a fleet in Bahrain not least to keep the Iranians from holding the worlds' oil sea-lanes hostage (that's us solving an issue), and we stationed troops in the Middle East for decades in order to help keep Israel and Egypt from going to war again (that's us solving an issue), and we have troops helping the Iraqi's now so that they can more effectively combat a terrorist-state (that's us helping to solve an issue).
    I'll just say that on some of those we create a problem then stay to solve the 'issue' we created a decade previous. It's not possible to rewind history, but you can't say our troops are in Iraq to solve the issue of them dealing with a terrorist state without noting that the U.S. breaking the country allowed the terrorist state to emerge.

    A) we can and
    B) to the extent that they are solvable, we can definitely be a part of the solution. Certainly our absence only makes these issues worse.
    I'm not at all clear that had we not invaded Afghanistan, and Iraq, that the "issues" would have been worse than now. Who knows, but it's certainly not a given that our decades of meddling has been a net positive to regional stability.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Good Idea!

    So..... who do you think is going to pony up for this brave new world?
    Starfleet. It's real! Sweartogawd!

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    "We" should? And isn't it a bit difficult to figure out who are the "hostile elements" we should push out and who we should allow in those newly purged spaces?
    Yes. We should. And only tactically. But that's why we have an intelligence community

    Well, it was sort of us who decided to meddle in that region.
    On the contrary - the war between us and AQAA was launched by the other side.

    I suppose one could say we need to keep a permanent presence there for oil or to protect Israel, but that's a choice we made.
    Sure, it was a choice we made to solve problems - namely, how do you handle the worlds' most geopolitically important resource being located in one of its least stable regions, and how do you stop nation-states in that region from going to war every decade or so because one group wants to wipe out every member of the other. In the latter case, it has the added urgency that the group who is intended for annihilation is probably nuclear, and could respond in such a manner if it felt it had no choice.

    Defense certainly contributes to the deficit - it's a quarter or so of the budget.
    Nate Silver: What is driving the increase in government spending

    Hint: Defense is still at a post-war low as a portion of GDP. Our defense spending is sustainable. Our entitlements (and, possibly, if rates rise, interest payments) are not.

    I'll just say that on some of those we create a problem then stay to solve the 'issue' we created a decade previous.
    When did we deliberately create a problem so that we have an excuse to stick around?

    It's not possible to rewind history, but you can't say our troops are in Iraq to solve the issue of them dealing with a terrorist state without noting that the U.S. breaking the country allowed the terrorist state to emerge.
    True story. It turns out there is no perfect solution, and each problem solved often means that another will rise in its stead. We defeated Hitler, and then had to face Stalin. We beat Communism, and then had to face Islamic Fundamentalism. After Islamic Fundamentalism, it will be something else.

    But here's the trick on that: foreign policy isn't optional. There is a living example today of what happens when a country decides that it is. That country is North Korea. If we like our nice first-world lifestyle, then we have to protect the global supply chains and trade order that makes that possible.

    I'm not at all clear that had we not invaded Afghanistan, and Iraq, that the "issues" would have been worse than now. Who knows, but it's certainly not a given that our decades of meddling has been a net positive to regional stability.
    I would disagree. It has been almost half a century now since Israel went to war against another nation-state, Afghanistan, for all it is problematic, is not being run by the Taliban and Iraq, for all that the North is a security nightmare, is still a (roughly) functioning representative government rather than a psycho-dictatorship with a history of attacking its neighbors.

    As Hitchens pointed out - if the West doesn't interject itself, it doesn't mean that nothing happens. It means that something else happens.

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