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Thread: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'm just surprised that small government libertarians in the GOP are wanting the "State" to have essentially unchecked powers that touch on the most basic civil liberties.
    I'm not surprised that you are assigning views to people that they have not expressed, and in most cases have already said they do not hold.

    You're a 'conservative' and likely at heart an authoritarian, so I'm not surprised you'd support torture as a tool available to government against people-not-like-you, but I don't actually expect that from libertarian types.

    FWIW, I'm also opposed to the death penalty for many reasons, but as it's practiced in the U.S., as flawed as it is, there are pretty important checks and balances in the system. With torture and the like, it's asserted to be (at least this was what Bush asserted) a power vested in one person - the POTUS/CIC or his delegates, and not limited by Congress or the Courts. Quite a fundamental difference, so your attempted analogy is also a FAIL.
    I stated in my first post that I oppose the rendition techniques used by the CIA; but this in no way excuses the politically motivated actions of Feinstein and her pack of jackals. Her behavior is shameful and comes extremely close to outright treason. Clearly the democrats view Republicans as their enemy, and apparently willing to craft an alliance with Al Qaeda to attack the Republicans.

    The entire party disgusts me.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Those people "not like me" happen to be enemies, dude. Actually I'm somewhat libertarian, but mostly conservative. Nevertheless, everyone apparently acted upon the opinion that it was legal under all applicable rules. Given that, and their urge to spare the country another 9/11 attack, I can see how this interrogation method seemed viable. One could also argue that sending out troops in to bomb and kill people is also a war crime. So how far do you want to go with it? Three people got waterboarded in a war. Many more were actually killed. Keep a perspective.
    Some were enemies, some were innocent bystanders caught up in the hysteria, which is of course why due process and human rights matter. And it's not just interrogation and torture or torture lite or "EIT" - the idea that we have prisoners in a lawless (literally) zone at GITMO is a problem, that we intend to try them in Kangaroo courts or alternatively hold them indefinitely, as was the idea that we could sweep anyone up and render them to places unknown, and more recently that we can drone citizens without trial, not to mention suspected unfriendlies. These are all pretty expansive powers without meaningful checks, and it's a bit frustrating that they're accepted with such ease so long as someone somewhere says they're necessary or worked to "Keep Us Safe" TM.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncensored2008 View Post
    I'm not surprised that you are assigning views to people that they have not expressed, and in most cases have already said they do not hold.
    Those who don't hold those views are just being silent I guess.

    I stated in my first post that I oppose the rendition techniques used by the CIA; but this in no way excuses the politically motivated actions of Feinstein and her pack of jackals. Her behavior is shameful and comes extremely close to outright treason. Clearly the democrats view Republicans as their enemy, and apparently willing to craft an alliance with Al Qaeda to attack the Republicans.
    Some democrats might, but I've had an entire discussion over two days without needing to mention republicans or democrats or make this a partisan issue. It crosses partisan lines, and my support of the release of the report is because I'm not aware of a way to hold people accountable, or hold our government accountable, when what they've done remains a secret. We can't protest or fight to change what we don't know exists. If you've got a suggestion, feel free to make it.

    The entire party disgusts me.
    That's clear enough. The insane assertion that they're 'willing to craft an alliance with AQ' was another clue. Disagreeing with you doesn't make one a terrorist lover. I'm willing to gladly concede those who disagree with me can do so, and hold views 180 degrees from me on this issue, and have nothing but the best intentions for our country, our troops, and our continued safety. You might consider the same possibility.
    Last edited by JasperL; 12-11-14 at 05:55 PM.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncensored2008 View Post
    So, you respond by building a straw man? Figures.

    The actions of Feinstein, et al. come close to treason in that they give aid and comfort to the the enemy, to wit, ISIS and Al Qaeda. Reread the law and see if you can grasp why this borders on treason?
    I didn't actually think the insane "treason" allegation deserved a serious response.

    And if you want to assert that Feinstein has engaged in a treasonous act by releasing a report of act by the CIA regarding activities dating back at least 6 years, be my guest. In the interim, between the first revelations in the mid-2000s and this report, AQ and ISIS have needed no additional excuses to target U.S. interests, and AQ has been doing so non-stop since well before 9/11. If you think the release of this report somehow gives them additional aid and support, how and why? Be specific. And then you can explain how it's not the acts, but disclosing them, that are the core issue.

    Etc.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I didn't actually think the insane "treason" allegation deserved a serious response.
    How are they "insane?"

    And if you want to assert that Feinstein has engaged in a treasonous act by releasing a report of act by the CIA regarding activities dating back at least 6 years, be my guest. In the interim, between the first revelations in the mid-2000s and this report, AQ and ISIS have needed no additional excuses to target U.S. interests, and AQ has been doing so non-stop since well before 9/11. If you think the release of this report somehow gives them additional aid and support, how and why? Be specific. And then you can explain how it's not the acts, but disclosing them, that are the core issue.

    Etc.

    As stated dozens of times, Feinstein comes close to treason. I don't believe it could win in a court of law, yet it astounds me that some are so partisan as to defend her acts.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncensored2008 View Post
    How are they "insane?"

    As stated dozens of times, Feinstein comes close to treason. I don't believe it could win in a court of law, yet it astounds me that some are so partisan as to defend her acts.
    It's insane because there's no basis for the charge, and you 'stating' it however many times doesn't make it so. Explain how this report meets the at least moral level of "treason."

    And you've accused "democrats" of conspiring with AQ. Hilarious you're whinging about "some are so partisan..."

    FWIW, for actual liberals, Feinstein is a big government apologist and long time defender of the national security apparatus. To accuse HER of all people of conspiring with AQ, against the interests of the national security state she normally bows before, it particularly funny.
    Last edited by JasperL; 12-11-14 at 06:33 PM.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Well, he deserves a punch in the eye and charged with crimes against humanity. We both know that won't happen. As for attention, that's just whiny stuff. Anything that happens can be seen that way, and don't you remember bogus terror alerts and distractions under Bush? So, it's neither here nor there concerning anything being a distraction.
    Crimes against Humanity?!! lol, that's funny.

    Waterboarding IS NOT torture, if you really wore those wings you would understand that.

    We should have tortured them. We should have executed them on live TV and showed the world that we are not playing around anymore. That we don't care what they think of us and that if you are an enemy of this country, attack this nation in anyway, or assist those that do, you will suffer the consequences of your actions. REALLY SUFFER!!!

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's insane because there's no basis for the charge, and you 'stating' it however many times doesn't make it so. Explain how this report meets the at least moral level of "treason."

    And you've accused "democrats" of conspiring with AQ. Hilarious you're whinging about "some are so partisan..."

    FWIW, for actual liberals, Feinstein is a big government apologist and long time defender of the national security apparatus. To accuse HER of all people of conspiring with AQ, against the interests of the national security state she normally bows before, it particularly funny.
    At the moment you have to start making $hit up, you know you have lost.

    I did not accuse the democrats of conspiring with AQ - you made that up. I said that DiFi, the outgoing chairman of the Senate intelligence committee, comes close to treason with her blatant aid and comfort to the enemy. What is it precisely, that you cannot grasp in this?

    There is no practical gain for the nation in releasing a hatchet job at this time. It certainly does not enhance the security of the nation, exactly the opposite. The ONLY result of this is a propaganda tool for Islamists. Feinstein, bitter over the humiliating defeat her shameful party suffered in the last election, sought revenge on the nation by arming the Islamists with propaganda fodder that will damage this nation for years. DiFi never contacted or conspired with anyone other than her fellow democrats, but with an angst toward a nation who rejected them so strong that she threw a juicy bone to America's most dangerous and deadly enemy.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rentoc View Post
    Crimes against Humanity?!! lol, that's funny.

    Waterboarding IS NOT torture, if you really wore those wings you would understand that.

    We should have tortured them. We should have executed them on live TV and showed the world that we are not playing around anymore. That we don't care what they think of us and that if you are an enemy of this country, attack this nation in anyway, or assist those that do, you will suffer the consequences of your actions. REALLY SUFFER!!!
    You're just factually wrong. Waterboarding has always been torture. We've considered it that and so does the rest of the world.

    And I did wear those wings, which means I'm more than a weaker minded lacky. I think. I ask questions. I think critically. I can read and know our past. I listen when the military itself reports this is a bad idea. A true solider knows war is to be avoided when possible, that it is a saddness and not something to be cheered. Soldiers go to war reluctantly because they no the cost. And they know tortue us wrong, especially when we torture innocent people. And we did torture innocent people, not to mention that many had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq did not help with that attack. Too many speak in mindlessly generalized terms as you did above.

    One more thing, if you live long enough, you may learn that your bluster is not convincing. Such blood lust is not justice, and others won't react in fear, but instead intensify their efforts. I pray you live long enough to learn better.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Perhaps not, but there was a lot more to it than waterboarding, and some of the prisoners just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    If torture is such an effective technique, perhaps we should start using it in our war on drugs. Capture one gang banger, torture him until he gives up the names of his fellows, then capture and torture them as well. Pretty soon, the drug dealers will all have been captured, tortured, most of them killed, and we'll have won the war on drugs. Does that sound like a good idea?

    Oh, and let's employ drones. Find out where the gangs hang out, send a drone to take them out. Sure, there could be a little collateral damage, but what the hey, we'll have wiped out a bunch of scummy gang bangers. If it works for the Middle East, surely it would work in East LA and similar places, right?
    LOL...Bingo, gottcha there ditto...See, I know that when you get all snarky and sarcastic, you've lost the debate at that moment so I will leave it at that.
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