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Thread: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

  1. #521
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    That's the Bottomline.....no matter what. Doesn't matter if the end Justifies the means. As it might not. There is no other variable. What does matter is all that hyped morality that you want to sound off with. So shall we put you down for torturing the terrorist then?

    Nah I don't watch TV to much and certainly not Soap Operas that you are talking about.



    What did this accomplish? It may fire up the lefty base and sate ideologues' political bloodlust after a brutal election, but this issue isn't a major advantage to posturing Democrats. Why? Americans overwhelmingly believe that "torture" is sometimes justified:




    Yeah, lets go with what most of America thinks about some justification.
    Uh, bub, this is about you. Obviously I do NOT believe the ends justify the means...but you keep finding all sorts of justifications for the means.

    That is the point.

    Further, it seems that it does not matter to you that the assumptions of achieving a true "end" are true, you will take at face value the statements of these CIA officials as true......those that have a vested interest in making valid torture.
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 12-11-14 at 02:26 PM.
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    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Might want to look up "treason".
    I'm pretty sure I won't find that the definition includes Congressional oversight of the CIA, and releasing findings of that oversight.

    If you're complaining that I responded to your ridiculous accusation of treason by Feinstein with another ridiculous accusation, that's fair enough.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    It is really wonderful to see so much effort being applied to support the means justifying the ends....assuming that what is said by CIA sources (who have VERY vested interests in justifying torture) is true.
    Almost like the same 'the ends justifies the means' being applied to ObamaCare. Just sayin'
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Almost like the same 'the ends justifies the means' being applied to ObamaCare. Just sayin'
    Well, good point. Other than the issues are in entirely different moral galaxies separated by billions of light years, great analogy!

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Almost like the same 'the ends justifies the means' being applied to ObamaCare. Just sayin'
    I always find it amusing that folks like yourself will double down on lost arguments by comparing the success of the PPACA to torture.

    Reductio ad absurdum.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    We charged them with a crime for waterboarding U.S. soldiers. Are you saying it's not a problem if we do it? And it wasn't just the Japanese - I linked earlier to a legal analysis that demonstrates we've always considered waterboarding torture, and a crime, across more than a century, in various cases, from wars to domestically, done by U.S. soldiers or to them, etc. There was no question until 2002 or so whether it was torture - it was considered obviously torture, period.
    Well, the premise of that statement is false. Waterboarding was known as "The Third Degree" in common parlance in the 1930s and 1940s (and the origin of the phrase "giving him the third degree"). It was only removed from fuse n domestic policing in the 1940s, but says nothing of its legal use in the military against saboteurs and non-uniformed combatants.

    And the core issue remains - that killing is part of war does not speak AT ALL to whether or not torture is morally justifiable or acceptable. We've separated those issues for our entire history as far as I can tell, but you're lumping them into the same moral question. If torture is justifiable because it falls short of killing, then you've opened a very large barn door.
    And no, we don't. In both cases the use has to be warranted. It is SOMETIMES warranted to kill a person in wartime but that doesn't mean it is warranted at all times to kill people in war time. Likewise the use of EIT is not warranted in all cases because it is war time, but that doesn't mean it is always unwarranted in wartime.

    Also, the left is trying to use Japanese interrogation methods and the Japanese War crime Tribunals as evidence that the US saw waterboarding as a capital offense after WWII... but this is more abject stupidity. Nobody was hung for waterboarding. When a Japanese defendant was sentenced to be executed the sentence was for, in all case, atrocities they had committed during the war such as the Rape of Nanking. Some were given prison sentences for using waterboarding but that was because waterboarding was outlawed for use on POWs who qualified for GC protections.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Uh, bub, this is about you. Obviously I do NOT believe the ends justify the means...but you keep finding all sorts of justifications for the means.

    That is the point.


    Oh, so you would let a great many people die? So much for all that touted morality.

    Ends....not people, huh?


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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I don't think it will be the Obama Administration that will do anything. I think worst case, the International community will start demanding people from the GW Bush Administration be brought up on war crimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos
    Which international community?
    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Any group of countries whose governments believed that the GW Bush Administration did was wrong/in violation of international law. Think Nuremberg Trials after WWII. Not saying I agree with that, just saying that the findings from such a report could have international backlash.
    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    2) Most nations would consider beheadings to be far worse than any act of torture (mainly because it's their people - Europeans as well as Americans - who are being beheaded).

    The only nations that might get in an uproar over this are the Saudis and the UAE and their hands are so clean here either. Nonetheless, if people across the world start complaining loud enough condemning America for our torturous deeds especially if world leaders take this up to the U.N., we might see some pressure to do something about this besides publishing a torture report.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    That's not happening because our interrogation methods here are a joke compared to the rest of the world. It's like the pot calling the corningware black.
    Hmmmm...then perhaps you might want to review this thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...s-torture.html
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Oh, so you would let a great many people die? So much for all that touted morality.

    Ends not people, huh?
    It is an absurd assumption, it is the stuff of "soap operas".......and it is still all a desperate attempt to justify torture.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But a SC justice actually brought up 24 in a discussion of torture.
    Oh no!!
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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