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Thread: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

  1. #331
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    To do thinking? Not the thought police here man. Analyzing over 6 million documents isnt "trying to do thinking for others".


    Ohh i get it now. Americans should not know what we did, it should all be secret, secret. No need to show what we did to people. No need to show we tortued, and abused people. No need to show how inhuman we became after 9/11. No need for transparency, no need for public knowledge, no need to inform the electorate, no need to learn from history. Spoken like a true neo-con, wait he is a neo-con





    Now thats funny.

    4 year study analyzing 6 million documents isnt objective? Notice how the GOP leadership isnt saying that this study is "false" or anything along those lines they are playing the national security card.
    Looks like Feinstein her staff and the other Demos on the committee were.....huh?

    In the minority report, it says that the majority report that Senator Feinstein released today includes indications of political consideration. Specifically, it says we found indications of political considerations within the study, for example, the study uses out of context quotes from certain minority members to suggest incorrectly that they supported certain positions taken by the study. The study omits additional comments by the same members which contradict the out of context statements.....snip~


    I don't see where the Neo Con said American should not know. Could have released a report without any Major news coverage.....not like that's been done before, eh?

    No need to show how inhuman we have become?

    Uhm the GOP wrote up a Dissent. You do know what a dissent is.....correct?

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Let me put it context.

    The terrorists use torture.

    If we use the same indifference to humanity as the terrorists do, we are essentially no better then the enemy we are fighting.

    In fact we are worse by claiming we represent the best of humanity.
    Terrorists drive pick up trucks, and so do people in Texas. Are they the same?

  3. #333
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You assume they need to get intel.

    The point is, they are ignorant of these techniques. And they are no more effective for them.
    You said torture doesn't work, even ISIS knows this, and that's why they just kill people instead. The point of torture in this context, overwhelmingly obviously, is to gain intelligence. Otherwise, the point of torture is to cause harm, I suppose? And in that regard, it is very effective, don't you think?

    You made a ridiculous assertion. At least this specific argument is bunk.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    No form of torture should be deemed "acceptable".

    Yes, look who we're dealing with. Evil people. Cockroaches. Let's not become like them by attempting to defeat them. The US has to be better than ISIS.


    What has always baffled me is that the US, rightfully at times, has used its military muscle to advance "freedom and democracy", but has in recent times has shown nothing but authoritarianism in that goal.

    Sociologists and historians agree that the shift from being determined enemies by Japan and Germany, to good friends and allies was largely steeped in how America conquered. I had a great friend, a Japanese born gardener who was a child when McArthur's troops rolled through his suburb of Tokyo. They had lined the streets with make shift American flags in the hopes the conquerors would not behead the adults and eat their children as they had been taught. Instead, and he had tears in his eyes when he told me this, they stopped the trucks and began handing out rice! His family had been subsisting on rats.

    Compare that to Abu-Graib, how the US 'conquered' Iraq and imposed an unwanted government.

    Is it any wonder that those deserving of "freedom and democracy" are resisting it's implementation as presented by the current and previous administration?

    Not having figured out who are the bad guys doesn't help. I suspect there are Afghans who might be wary since Al-Qaeda was killing them with American weapons.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Looks like Feinstein her staff and the other Demos on the committee were.....huh?
    Hmm soo gonna bring up the same point as the last two points without answering my question. So I will ask again below.. .

    In the minority report, it says that the majority report that Senator Feinstein released today includes indications of political consideration. Specifically, it says we found indications of political considerations within the study, for example, the study uses out of context quotes from certain minority members to suggest incorrectly that they supported certain positions taken by the study. The study omits additional comments by the same members which contradict the out of context statements.....snip~
    ""And what quotes are these? Any specifics?"

    I don't see where the Neo Con said American should not know
    .
    Of course he did. You even quoted him in post #271: "But you can still object to the conduct, you can still hold people accountable if you need to without releasing these kinds of sensational details". But he also goes on to say more that oyu did not quote: " Well, Iím dismayed that itís being released... To me, itís very counterproductive and harmful, and Iím deeply sorry that Senator Feinstein decided to release it.... you donít have to release this report... Iím dismayed that itís being released"

    Could have released a report without any Major news coverage.....not like that's been done before, eh?
    Oh so now you are bummed out that the media is covering that we tortured people?

    No need to show how inhuman we have become?
    So I get it. Oh it should of been flowers and pixie dust. No need to show that we actively and systematically tortured people. We dont need to know that. No need to inform the elctorate. No need for the free press to cover it, no need to show how the CIA lied to Congress, the American public, the judicial system. No need for all of that.

    Uhm the GOP wrote up a Dissent. You do know what a dissent is.....correct?
    Yea. And your point being?


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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Could I suggest a grain of salt or perhaps a 2lb box of salt for this report. It may be true and it may not be true. Government information should always be taken with some salt. Since it didn't uncover anything I hadn't heard in the news in the past, I'll assume it is true. What we should be angry about is that the democrats on the senate committee spent $40 million for a report designed to embarrase the previous administration by uncovering nothing new. Pure partisan witch hunt. What a waste!

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Could I suggest a grain of salt or perhaps a 2lb box of salt for this report. It may be true and it may not be true. Government information should always be taken with some salt. Since it didn't uncover anything I hadn't heard in the news in the past, I'll assume it is true. What we should be angry about is that the democrats on the senate committee spent $40 million for a report designed to embarrase the previous administration by uncovering nothing new. Pure partisan witch hunt. What a waste!
    And hypocritical too. Some of these same people had a different view when the CIA advised them of these techniques in detail back in 2002 and 2003.

    Hill Briefed on Waterboarding in 2002

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    Terrorists drive pick up trucks, and so do people in Texas. Are they the same?
    I'm afraid the answer from some here would be, "No, the Texans are worse." I drive a pick up truck in Virginia, and that just goes to show you exactly how pernicious and inumane ideologies expand exponentially.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Which international community?
    Any group of countries whose governments believed that the GW Bush Administration did was wrong/in violation of international law. Think Nuremberg Trials after WWII. Not saying I agree with that, just saying that the findings from such a report could have international backlash.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I here this claim alot mostly from those on the Right. So, I'm curious: What is your definition of "torture"?

    I think alot of people consider torture exclusive as an act of causing severe pain to the body, i.e., bamboo sticks under finger nails, shock treatment and the like. But torture can also be construed as an act that causes extreme anguish to the body or the mind. As such, waterboarding, sleep deprivation, exposing a person to loud music for extended periods of time could all be considered forms of torture.

    I think for many of us in the U.S., we're accustomed to the Rambo movies or imagines of Vietnam POWs where their feet are beaten w/thin bamboo sticks or are brutally beaten. I wonder if those who see torture exclusively this way would also consider a man or woman placed in a hot box laying out in the hot sun for hours to be a form of punishment or torture.

    If you want to believe that torture is limited exclusively to those physical acts that cause pain to the body, then the so-called "enhanced interrogation techniques authorized by the GWB Administration isn't torture. But if you believe torture can include acts that inflict extreme anguish to the body or mind, then such acts would be torture as well.
    That is roughly the definition under the letter of law. maybe it is disingenuous to ignore the spirit of the law for the letter of the law of course both sides have done this many times on politically divisive actions. If thats what it take to prevent another 9/11 I can live with it.

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