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Thread: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

  1. #271
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Absolutely did. Thats what my post stated of page 35 of the report... So that is the reason why they didnt get to interview any of the CIA officials... But then again its important to notice that the Senate Intelligence Committee did however have access to the "CIA’s own internal evaluation of its interrogation practices. Known as the Panetta Review (after then CIA Director Leon Panetta), the report came to some critical conclusions that matched the Senate’s conclusions." http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/09/whose-fault-is-it-cia-werent-interviewed . So they did have access to documents

    Here is another problem with the Demo Report.


    In the minority report, it says that the majority report that Senator Feinstein released today includes indications of political consideration. Specifically, it says we found indications of political considerations within the study, for example, the study uses out of context quotes from certain minority members to suggest incorrectly that they supported certain positions taken by the study. The study omits additional comments by the same members which contradict the out of context statements <<<<< Here is the other problem that comes in when thinking for others.


    Max Boot, senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations

    You can have debates about whether they were effective or not. All that kind of stuff, you can debate it ad nauseum. But you don’t have to release this report with all these gruesome details, which serves to simply sensationalize the whole debate. And again, as I stressed earlier, and I think this is the big damage being done here, this is really providing fodder for the propaganda mills of our enemies, just as the revelations of Edward Snowden have done, and just as the revelations of Bradley Manning, and just as, you know, the revelation of Abu Ghraib did in 2004. Those also became prime recruiting tools for al Qaeda. That’s not to say that the underlying conduct can certainly be wrong, and there’s no question in the case of Abu Ghraib, conduct was wrong. It was not one of these approved interrogation programs. But you can still object to the conduct, you can still hold people accountable if you need to without releasing these kinds of sensational details, which harm American national security interests, and harm our ability to fight terrorism here and now......snip~
    Last edited by MMC; 12-10-14 at 12:43 PM.

  2. #272
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    By your counterfactual "well we don't know we couldn't have gotten the same information with other means" positions.

    But if you'd like to know more specifics, feel free to follow that link or actually look up what the people who were involved in the program have said about it. There is a good reason why the Senate Democrats refused to include their testimony and evidence in their report.
    Let's keep this breaking up to a minimum as i don't want you to get lost and start misrepresenting something.

    And over the years, I have looked up every claim. I've followed every link. And read the what Demsoc posted. You'll see a different explanation.



    Yes, and he was complaining that we droned an American citizen just because the guy was a member of AQAP and connected to multiple attacks on the homeland.
    You got lsot already. This doesn't speak to anything I said, at least not as written.



    actual torture (which I do not believe we engaged in) does indeed have evil in it. So does killing people in their sleep, which we do, and most of what goes on in warfare. There are very few black and white decisions available out there. It is also (unfortunately) effective, which is why people do it.
    No we did engage in torture. The effort to redefine torture was in itself evil. And while there are no good guys in war, it is still different than torture which requires a much more personal and sadistic act.



    I'd roughly concur with the sentiment behind this. The actual torture I've run across, yeah, bothered me then and I still have mixed feelings about it now. It probably saved my life once, I'll admit to being somewhat okay with my children having a father, my wife a husband.
    One of the fellows I talked to at first said it didn't bother him. His wife gave an odd look. I questioned the look. She talked about how he didn't sleep at night. He began talking about the things he had done, and largely the redefined things you speak of, and finally admitted it was why he couldn't sleep. I only listened.

    I can't speak for you and won't, but what we did is and always has been torture. When we first started talking about this, there was a post with the CIA handbook on this. I can't find it now, but hopefully you'll remember it. In that text they said waterboarding, stress positions and the like were more damaging with longer lasting problems that torture that emphasized violence. And just as ineffective.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #273
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What's the alternative - trust Congress? I think trust in any government institution is and should be suspect given their bad track record of lying to the American people.
    At least congress is answerable to the votes of the American people.

    The CIA is by its very nature a shadow orginization.
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    You are asking for us to trust the CIA on this?

    Trust and the CIA do not exist in the same demension.
    Doesn't matter if you trust 'em.
    The Dem staffers didn't even try to talk to them.
    That says you can't trust the Dem staffers any more than Gruber's practiced apology.

  5. #275
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    It would be highly effective is we just used nuclear weapons to leave the entire Arab world a smoking crater.

    "Effective" does not equal "moral".

    And I still find it difficult to understand why SIMULATING drowning is morally worse that blasting them apart with missiles?
    Because you look at with eyes that lack enough knowledge. it is not simulation by the way. It is actual drowning. We just don't let them die. And we do it over and over. Being blasted apart ends. Done. The suffering over. And even those who live with physical damage, the effects are often less devastating according to those who study it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #276
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    I don't think that bush knew about the torture program until it was already in effect.

    The real blame has to fall on the CIA
    It's entirely possible that he didn't know. The war on terror was not his baby anyway, but was being run by Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I am afraid, if what seems to be in the report is true, that it was necessary to publish it. American citizens need to know if their employees are breaking the law and lying to them. I can hardly believe that the guys at the CIA were as stupid as it now seems.
    They were neither. Instead they very carefully and very scrupulously followed the exact instructions issued to them by the Justice Department to make sure that they did not break the law.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    heh heh, serendipitous typo there.

    And see Ocean's reply.
    They didn't even interview the CIA chiefs and the JD excuse was no more.
    What else ya got?
    Was no more? Seems it set the precedence. That said, as I said, the documents tell the story, don't they? Are you suggesting they had success but put in the offical documents that they didn't? For what purpose?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It's entirely possible that he didn't know. The war on terror was not his baby anyway, but was being run by Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld.
    Where is wikileaks when you need them.
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    Re: Senate panel releases scathing report on CIA interrogation...

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I have no idea what you are going on about.

    There are two links at the top of the home page from CIASavedLives.

    One provides a PDF download of the Senate Minority Report, and the other to a PDF download of the CIA Rebuttal. Both contain specific reference to the Democrats process as well as other relevant information.

    Even if there was some confusion over the links I was referencing, the fact you didn't list them is all the more evidence needed to understand your bias and agenda driven effort here.

    Oh dear ... For the sake of his health I hope Boo doesn't get wind of that CIASavedLives link.

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