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Satanic Temple display approved for Florida Capitol

Grant said:
Yes, that's all been discussed.

It's clear that anyone can put up a display but the question is, what drove them to do it?
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The state allowing religious displays on public property is probably what set them off.
 
Grant said:
Who knows? They aren't very articulate..
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Not "very articulate"? If you say so . . .
"In a nation that respects religious liberty, viewpoint discrimination is simply intolerable," said Lucien Greaves, spokesman for the New York-based Satanic Tempe, in a statement. "For that reason, we feel our holiday display sends a very important, affirmative message that goes above and beyond that of superficial season's greetings."
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Somerville said:
A person can be good without God
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In fact, I'd argue that people can be better without God. Belief in God tends to make people hate others for no good reason and discriminate against equality.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Sorry but no one is forcing anyone to look at those nativity scenes. If you don't want to look at it then don't. Its as simple as that. Having a nativity scene is no different than having a totem pole on public property. (which I've seen and no one gives a flying flip about except to think "that's cool!") Its also no different than having a public building with a mural on it depicting the civil war or whatever.

There are two ways in which someone being offended happens. 1: They are goaded into being offended. Such as what these atheists are doing towards Christians. 2: They CHOOSE to be offended. Which is what these atheists are doing towards nativity scenes. I mean come on, how can anyone be offended at a child being born in a manger unless they choose to be?

All of you supporting this can spin and strawman your way all that you want through this. In the end it is as simple as this. These "Satanists" who really are not religious in the slightest but are actually extreme atheists are doing this not to promote freedom of religion. They are doing this to deny freedom of religion in any spot that they might happen to see it at in the only areas that they can possibly affect. If they had an actual nobel purpose and weren't all liars I might have supported them. But they don't and they are. Their only purpose is to cause derision of Christianity...interestingly enough (not really) all while ignoring any other religions out there that have their displays displayed publicly.
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If I start a giant orgy in the streets on your block, just don't look at it. If you're offended, it's because you CHOOSE to be offended.

You sit there on your high horse declaring that the other guys are just liars and trolls, did it occur to you that all you are doing is just dictating to others what the correct beliefs are? Only be offended by what Kal'Stang says you should be offended by. Only care about religious freedom of those Kal'Stang says have it. You know what? Blocking other religions from access to public space while allowing Christian displays offends me because I'm an American.

Which public displays of other religions do you think are being ignored?
 
Cephus said:
In fact, I'd argue that people can be better without God. Belief in God tends to make people hate others for no good reason and discriminate against equality.
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You can test that theory by asking yourself which was the most murderous political movement in world history and then add to that by questioning why the Church was the among the first things to be outlawed.
 
Deuce said:
If I start a giant orgy in the streets on your block, just don't look at it. If you're offended, it's because you CHOOSE to be offended.
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So looking at a Christmas display is the same as looking at a giant orgy? Leftists have never been very good at analogies.
 
Grant said:
You can test that theory by asking yourself which was the most murderous political movement in world history and then add to that by questioning why the Church was the among the first things to be outlawed.
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Um... Hitler was a Christian and the Catholic Church backed him openly until it was clear he was insane, then they turned around and smuggled Nazis out of post-WWII Germany under Catholic Red Cross Visas. If you're talking about Stalin, he didn't outlaw most religions at all, he only really went after the Russian Orthodox Church because it had the largest number of faithful and the whole point of communism is to guarantee loyalty to the state, which religion gets in the way of. He wasn't anti-religion, he was pro-communism.
 
Cephus said:
Um... Hitler was a Christian and the Catholic Church backed him openly until it was clear he was insane, then they turned around and smuggled Nazis out of post-WWII Germany under Catholic Red Cross Visas. If you're talking about Stalin, he didn't outlaw most religions at all, he only really went after the Russian Orthodox Church because it had the largest number of faithful and the whole point of communism is to guarantee loyalty to the state, which religion gets in the way of. He wasn't anti-religion, he was pro-communism.
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Communism was the most murderous political movement in world history and the first thing Communists did on seizing power was outlaw the Churches. I assumed you knew all of this.
 
Grant said:
So looking at a Christmas display is the same as looking at a giant orgy? Leftists have never been very good at analogies.
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Reductio ad absurdum used to demonstrate the idiocy of his concept.

Allowing Christian displays on public property while not allowing all other religions the same access is offensive to me. And you don't get to go picking and choosing what counts as a genuine religious belief like Kal'Stang is doing.
 
Grant said:
Communism was the most murderous political movement in world history and the first thing Communists did on seizing power was outlaw the Churches. I assumed you knew all of this.
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"Actions toward particular religions, however, were determined by State interests, and most organized religions were never outlawed. The main target of the anti-religious campaign in the 1920s and 1930s was the Russian Orthodox Church, which had the largest number of faithful." Anti-religious Campaigns - Library of Congress

I'm not the ignorant one here.
 
Deuce said:
Reductio ad absurdum used to demonstrate the idiocy of his concept.

Allowing Christian displays on public property while not allowing all other religions the same access is offensive to me. And you don't get to go picking and choosing what counts as a genuine religious belief like Kal'Stang is doing.
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I agree that the Satanists should display their beer cans and a sign identifying themselves but they are doing it because they can do it, not that it makes any sense. They are displaying sophomoric ignorance, and it's legal. Stupid people in a democracy have rights too, and I support that concept.
 
Grant said:
Stupid people in a democracy have rights too, and I support that concept.
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Even stupid people with imaginary friends.
 
Cephus said:
"Actions toward particular religions, however, were determined by State interests, and most organized religions were never outlawed. The main target of the anti-religious campaign in the 1920s and 1930s was the Russian Orthodox Church, which had the largest number of faithful." Anti-religious Campaigns - Library of Congress

I'm not the ignorant one here.
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https://www.marxists.org/history/in...eriodicals/communist_review/1924/02/mason.htm

Communist leaders were the ones to be recognized as deities, as we can see by the statues, the photos everywhere, and so on. There was no room for Christianity in Communist countries though n some cases religious worship was allowed, but certainly discouraged. We can see the type of hero worship on display today in South Korea.
 
Grant said:
https://www.marxists.org/history/in...eriodicals/communist_review/1924/02/mason.htm

Communist leaders were the ones to be recognized as deities, as we can see by the statues, the photos everywhere, and so on. There was no room for Christianity in Communist countries though n some cases religious worship was allowed, but certainly discouraged. We can see the type of hero worship on display today in South Korea.
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You're pushing your own interpretations instead of what is actually so. Just like in North Korea (which I assume you meant), their constitution allows for freedom of religion, even though they are officially a non-religious country. They may restrict religious activities, but there are state-sanctioned religious groups to which the people can belong. Therefore, they have not wiped out religion by any means, even if they do not enjoy the same religious freedom we do in the United States.
 
Deuce said:
If I start a giant orgy in the streets on your block, just don't look at it. If you're offended, it's because you CHOOSE to be offended.
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1: This is illegal. So your Reductio ad absurdum wasn't just absurd, it was stupid.

2: I wouldn't be offended. It would give me a chance to watch and observe. ;) Particularly the police rounding them up and hauling them off.

Deuce said:
You sit there on your high horse declaring that the other guys are just liars and trolls, did it occur to you that all you are doing is just dictating to others what the correct beliefs are? Only be offended by what Kal'Stang says you should be offended by. Only care about religious freedom of those Kal'Stang says have it. You know what? Blocking other religions from access to public space while allowing Christian displays offends me because I'm an American.
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They ARE liars and trolls. Their own website states that Gods are mythical and do not exist. Something that extreme athiests believe. A true Satanist believes in God also for the simple fact that Satan is the opposite of God.

From their own website...

As Anton LaVey explained in his classic work The Satanic Bible, Man—using his brain—invented all the Gods, doing so because many of our species cannot accept or control their personal egos, feeling compelled to conjure up one or a multiplicity of characters who can act without hindrance or guilt upon whims and desires. All Gods are thus externalized forms, magnified projections of the true nature of their creators, personifying aspects of the universe or personal temperaments which many of their followers find to be troubling. Worshipping any God is thus worshipping by proxy those who invented that God. Since the Satanist understands that all Gods are fiction, instead of bending a knee in worship to—or seeking friendship or unity with—such mythical entities, he places himself at the center of his own subjective universe as his own highest value.
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Link

Unless atheism is now considered a religion, which would go against their very tenants as atheists, this group is definitely NOT a religion. No matter what spin and legal loopholes they managed to get through. IF they were a legitimate, honest to goodness (or badness depending on POV ;) ) religion I would have no problem with them putting up their idiotic displays, hell...Christianity does so why would I be bothered by these guys IF they were actually religious? But they're not. They're atheists intent on being childish and offensive in order to try and drive out religion from the public eye because they choose to be offended by such sights.

You see the ONLY problem that I'm having with this is that these people are doing it JUST to be aholes, not because they're actually religious. If they were being honest then I'd have no problem with them.

You also seem to think that I am advocating for them to be denied their display. I'm not. I'm all for free speech. IMO and as far as I'm concerned someone could put up a display advocating for abortion next to some religion that is against it and I'd be fine with it. So, them putting up their display is no big whoop. The big whoop is them doing it just to be aholes. I will always advocate for manners over someone being an ahole.
 
Satanists aren't atheists and atheists aren't Satanists. Why are some finding this statement so difficult to believe.

Atheist doesn't simply mean a person doesn't believe in your god, it means belief in no gods. True Satanists see Lucifer as a deity equal to, if not superior to YWHW. Satanists believe in the Abrahamic god's existence but that it is not worthy of their worship.
 
Somerville said:
Satanists aren't atheists and atheists aren't Satanists. Why are some finding this statement so difficult to believe.

Atheist doesn't simply mean a person doesn't believe in your god, it means belief in no gods. True Satanists see Lucifer as a deity equal to, if not superior to YWHW. Satanists believe in the Abrahamic god's existence but that it is not worthy of their worship.
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which makes me wonder why athiests here are supportive of the satanists holiday display...


in any event, i don't care who puts what up for a holiday display on public land...it ain't none of my business.


it's not like a satanist display is going to be taken seriously anyways <shrugs>
 
Thrilla said:
which makes me wonder why athiests here are supportive of the satanists holiday display...


in any event, i don't care who puts what up for a holiday display on public land...it ain't none of my business.


it's not like a satanist display is going to be taken seriously anyways <shrugs>
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Atheists, humanists, agnostics and many Christians are supportive of the rights of all Americans, not just the ones who fit into a specific category. The point in all of this mess, is that no religion should be given space on publicly-owned land. BUT, If one sect is allowed, all sects must be allowed
 
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