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Satanic Temple display approved for Florida Capitol

Papa bull said:
Actually, both my wife and I are agnostic and hold little love for organized religion. Christmas is a national holiday and whether you believe the nativity scene represents a fable, folklore, myth, or the birth of your personal savior, the nativity scene is just part of Christmas. If you really hate Christianity to the point where you can't stand seeing a nativity scene in town square, you need to get a grip on yourself because it's just not a big deal. So what is it that you hate so much about organized religion? I have no use for it, but it sure doesn't bother me like it bothers you.
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Well, Ramadan eid festivals are just a part of Islam, do you want them on public property every morning at sunrise/sunset? Expand that to every religion practiced in the US, do we have Scientology personality testing stands up on the capitol lawn? How about Jain festivals, Hindu Diwalli, do we have people nailing themselves to crosses with real nails like they do in the Phillipines? How about fundamentalist Mormon sister bride festivals?

We can have all that, no problem. Do it on private space. Because public space is not for religion, and you really can't stomach having every single religion or belief out there every day celebrating something that the other religions don't.

If you have a church....use the church grounds to display your myths.

Very simple.
 
beefheart said:
Well, Ramadan eid festivals are just a part of Islam
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So what? Ramadan eid festivals aren't a national holiday. Freaking out over a nativity scene on town square for Christmas is like freaking out over a feckin' turkey on display during Thanksgiving. National holidays have their symbols. Don't get your panties in a wad over it. If you don't think Christmas should be a national holiday because you think it's offensive to your poor atheist sensibilities, then petition to have it removed from national holiday status. But until it's no longer a national holiday, throwing a hissy fit over a nativity scene on town square over the holiday is childish and petty.
 
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beefheart said:
Like evolution?

Try selling that to the fundies....LOL
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A vast percentage of Christians believe in evolution to many degrees. It does not inherently contradict Christianity. If anything, it reinforces it.

But I'm sure that's not what your leaders tell you.
 
Papa bull said:
So what? Ramadan eid festivals aren't a national holiday. Freaking out over a nativity scene on town square for Christmas is like freaking out over a feckin' turkey on display during Thanksgiving. National holidays have their symbols. Don't get your panties in a wad over it. If you don't think Christmas should be a national holiday because you think it's offensive to your poor atheist sensibilities, then petition to have it removed from national holiday status. But until it's no longer a national holiday, throwing a hissy fit over a nativity scene on town square over the holiday is childish and petty.
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So, Christmas is a non religious national holiday? I think the humor here is the christians freaking out over a satanic scene. The cristians want to have just their religion on display in public...but, too bad. Either allow everyone, or none. And don't get butt hurt over the satanists, festivus, FSM.
 
Erod said:
A vast percentage of Christians believe in evolution to many degrees. It does not inherently contradict Christianity. If anything, it reinforces it.

But I'm sure that's not what your leaders tell you.
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Wait, I have leaders telling me things? Who?
 
Erod said:
A vast percentage of Christians believe in evolution to many degrees. It does not inherently contradict Christianity. If anything, it reinforces it.

But I'm sure that's not what your leaders tell you.
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In U.S., 42% Believe Creationist View of Human Origins

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umm, no. We can give the pure creationist view to the Christians (not completely, we have muslims and such, but lets say 90% to be generous) and we can say mostly Christians are going to be the ID view as well. That doesn't leave many people left.
 
beefheart said:
So, Christmas is a non religious national holiday? I think the humor here is the christians freaking out over a satanic scene. The cristians want to have just their religion on display in public...but, too bad. Either allow everyone, or none. And don't get butt hurt over the satanists, festivus, FSM.
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They're not freaking out over festivus, fsm, hanukkah, etc. They're freaking out over a bunch of assbabies trying to erect a satanist display next to their nativity scenes, which is a pretty reasonable "freak out" since there is no Satanist holiday at the end of December. It's pure antagonistic crap; nothing more and nothing less and the fact that you've got some kind of a hard-on for Christianity for whatever petty little reasons you may have doesn't make it right. Actually, I don't care if the Satanists win and they get to erect a statue of Satan ass-****ing Sadam Hussein right in front of the nativity scene because all it will do is intensify the animosity between militant atheists and Christians and that's always fun to watch. But it's still petty on the part of all the butt-hurt anti-Christians hating all over Christmas.
 
Papa bull said:
They're not freaking out over festivus, fsm, hanukkah, etc. They're freaking out over a bunch of assbabies trying to erect a satanist display next to their nativity scenes, which is a pretty reasonable "freak out" since there is no Satanist holiday at the end of December. It's pure antagonistic crap; nothing more and nothing less and the fact that you've got some kind of a hard-on for Christianity for whatever petty little reasons you may have doesn't make it right. Actually, I don't care if the Satanists win and they get to erect a statue of Satan ass-****ing Sadam Hussein right in front of the nativity scene because all it will do is intensify the animosity between militant atheists and Christians and that's always fun to watch. But it's still petty on the part of all the butt-hurt anti-Christians hating all over Christmas.
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Satanists have the same right to display something as do christians. (what if they really believe in satan?)

Get over it...

Or, have none of these decorations.
 
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beefheart said:
Satanists have the same right to display something as do christians.

Get over it...

Or, have none of these decorations.
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Why accept civil society when you can find something to be outraged and self righteous about?
 
tacomancer said:
In U.S., 42% Believe Creationist View of Human Origins

mh7klzb21ue_tb0a1h_86q.png


umm, no. We can give the pure creationist view to the Christians (not completely, we have muslims and such, but lets say 90% to be generous) and we can say mostly Christians are going to be the ID view as well. That doesn't leave many people left.
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The point is, it isn't substantial either way. Christians believe that, whatever the process was, it was guided by God. There are many holes that exist in the Evolutionary theory when it comes to transitional species, as in, there isn't any proof whatsoever. Likewise, the exact method of a Creationism isn't defined either, so there's any number of possibilities.

The unavoidable fact of it all is that it didn't just happen by itself. Matter and physics don't exist without a hand from a much higher power.
 
Erod said:
The unavoidable fact of it all is that it didn't just happen by itself. Matter and physics don't exist without a hand from a much higher power.
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"God of the gaps" is a type of theological perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence.
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In other words, I don't know therefore God.

Its lazy thinking.
 
beefheart said:
Satanists have the same right to display something as do christians. (what if they really believe in satan?)

Get over it...

Or, have none of these decorations.
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Whatever. We'll see how it goes. The politics of Christmas haters makes this time of year very interesting. :)
 
Erod said:
The point is, it isn't substantial either way. Christians believe that, whatever the process was, it was guided by God. There are many holes that exist in the Evolutionary theory when it comes to transitional species, as in, there isn't any proof whatsoever. Likewise, the exact method of a Creationism isn't defined either, so there's any number of possibilities.

The unavoidable fact of it all is that it didn't just happen by itself. Matter and physics don't exist without a hand from a much higher power.
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Why would you make the assumption that there must be a higher power that is behind it. Because...if you do.....I get to ask......if there is a higher power, then it must have been created by a much higher power. Oh wait..you are going to pull out the old "god exists because he always existed, etc" baloney.

Who created god? Answer without using your cop-out.
 
Papa bull said:
Whatever. We'll see how it goes. The politics of Christmas haters makes this time of year very interesting. :)
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Whatever....you have no answer, because I exposed the hypocrisy of your arguement.

I don't hate christmass.

I hate one religion trying to get preferential treatment and all the people that want to blur the seperation of church and state.

Happy Festivus, may the joy of the season empower you to excel in the feats of strength.
 
beefheart said:
I don't hate christmass.

I hate one religion trying to get preferential treatment and all the people that want to blur the seperation of church and state.

Happy Festivus, may the joy of the season empower you to excel in the feats of strength.
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Happy Festivus to you, too. :D
 
beefheart said:
You don't get it. You have no problem because it is the religion YOU agree with.
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Please don;t get personal in this issue. I've already explained I am not a Christian so you can let that line of debate drop. I don't have to be Jewish to speak out for Jews or Black to speak up for Blacks or Baha'i to speak up for Baha'i.

Actually, the annual celebration is Saturnalia, a pagan celebration. Again....put up all the christmas decorations you want....on private property.
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Why do you feel so strongly about this? How are these Christmas customs and traditions effecting your life?
Public space is for the public, not for a religion to peddle their wares.
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What wares are they peddling? Are you concerned you might convert?
Christianity is exclusive to Christians, if you don't think so, go hit up the other religions of the world and ask them.
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Is it your sincere belief that Christmas is only celebrated by Christians???
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beefheart said:
Why would you make the assumption that there must be a higher power that is behind it. Because...if you do.....I get to ask......if there is a higher power, then it must have been created by a much higher power. Oh wait..you are going to pull out the old "god exists because he always existed, etc" baloney.

Who created god? Answer without using your cop-out.
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Logic dictates that it would take a Creator not made of carbon nor ruled by the laws of physics to create a universe of such, would it not?
 
Erod said:
Logic dictates that it would take a Creator not made of carbon nor ruled by the laws of physics to create a universe of such, would it not?
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"God of the gaps" is a type of theological perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence.
 
tacomancer said:
In other words, I don't know therefore God.

Its lazy thinking.
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And it's horribly arrogant that an insignificant species of humans could figure it out through their microscopically small sliver of scientific knowledge.

We know what He believes we are ready to know. And some among us actually dismiss Him for it.
 
tacomancer said:
"God of the gaps" is a type of theological perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence.
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No, just gaps in evolutionary theory. We are a long, long way from truly understanding the science of how we got here. Either way, as I've grown older, I've become absolutely convinced that it wasn't by chance. There was a hand involved not of this universe.
 
Erod said:
No, just gaps in evolutionary theory. We are a long, long way from truly understanding the science of how we got here. Either way, as I've grown older, I've become absolutely convinced that it wasn't by chance. There was a hand involved not of this universe.
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thats nice and all, but its a logical fallacy to suggest you can find god in the parts science hasn't settled yet. People used to think God was in plants growing or in organisms just showing up in open sterile containers for example.
 
tacomancer said:
thats nice and all, but its a logical fallacy to suggest you can find god in the parts science hasn't settled yet. People used to think God was in plants growing or in organisms just showing up in open sterile containers for example.
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There's the difference. I'm not looking for God in science. He is science. Imagine the complexity of His formula.

Science will never explain the origination of the elements or the laws of physics that guide them. There is no possible scientific reasoning that would allow for the spontaneous existence of either.
 
beefheart said:
So, Christmas is a non religious national holiday? I think the humor here is the christians freaking out over a satanic scene. The cristians want to have just their religion on display in public...but, too bad. Either allow everyone, or none. And don't get butt hurt over the satanists, festivus, FSM.
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It's not the Christians 'freaking out'. They're just carrying on the Christian traditions and customs enjoyed by people throughout the democracies for many, many generations.

It's the whining "Festivus" folks looking for equal time who are whining about Christmas, while the vast majority are indifferent to their goofiness and getting on with the spirit of the holidays..
 
tacomancer said:
thats nice and all, but its a logical fallacy to suggest you can find god in the parts science hasn't settled yet. People used to think God was in plants growing or in organisms just showing up in open sterile containers for example.
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This isn't about science or God, and you apparently aren't that familiar with either. It's about the spirit of Christmas, celebrating peace, love and good will towards man. What problem could you possibly have with that?
 
Grant said:
This isn't about science or God, and you apparently aren't that familiar with either. It's about the spirit of Christmas, celebrating peace, love and good will towards man. What problem could you possibly have with that?
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first amendment freedoms come first. The legality overrides the cultural arguments. Its up to individuals to decide whether they enjoy christmas or not.

Its not that I dont have a problem, but I dont care as its beyond the scope of what laws that town hall is bound to. Beyond that, like I stated, its up to the individual and not my problem.
 
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