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Thread: Obama chooses Ashton Carter as Pentagon chief

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    Re: Obama chooses Ashton Carter as Pentagon chief

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Well let me put it to you another way, who is more likely to mend some fences with the Pentagon? An egghead
    What makes him an "egghead"?

    who's only experience with the military has been handling the purse strings, or a decorated former General who has fought a long side and worked with many of the men in the past? Better yet, what experience does ol' Kutcher have with working with our foreign allies? I see he was a expert for Goldman Sachs. Is that really equal to a man who has real world experience working in cooperation with our allies and Supreme Allied Commander Europe of NATO during the Kosovo Conflict?
    And its true Carter hasnt "fought along side them in the past", but he has worked along side them in the past: Chairman of NATO High Level, negotiations with the Russians, invovled with defense operations with former Soviet States after the Cold War, involved with nuclear negotiations, involved in the Shift to Asia policy, long time member of the Defense Science Board and the Defense Advisory Board which are the main advisory body to the DOD, member of SOS Rice's International Security board, co-chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's Policy Advisory Group, a consultant to the Defense Science Board, a member of the National Missile Defense White Team, and a member of the National Academy of Sciences Committee on International Security and Arms Control. Was also one of the leaders to call for greater attention to terrorism before 9/11...

    You gotta be trolling me at this point if you really think these guys are on the same level man!
    I do.... Both have their expertise, both have experience, both have long standing careers in the ares of defense.


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    Re: Obama chooses Ashton Carter as Pentagon chief

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What makes him an "egghead"?
    Because he comes from a think tank background and hasn't seen a day of real world combat. In fact, I dare you to point out one time he was even shot at.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    And its true Carter hasnt "fought along side them in the past", but he has worked along side them in the past: Chairman of NATO High Level, negotiations with the Russians, invovled with defense operations with former Soviet States after the Cold War, involved with nuclear negotiations, involved in the Shift to Asia policy, long time member of the Defense Science Board and the Defense Advisory Board which are the main advisory body to the DOD, member of SOS Rice's International Security board, co-chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's Policy Advisory Group, a consultant to the Defense Science Board, a member of the National Missile Defense White Team, and a member of the National Academy of Sciences Committee on International Security and Arms Control. Was also one of the leaders to call for greater attention to terrorism before 9/11...
    Yes, yes, he's been on an awful lot of committees and boards and groups, but none of that makes him in the least be qualified to be Obama's chief liason to the Pentagon now does it? And if you were just looking for someone who was bringing attention to terrorism before 9/11, then hell, I'd even take Clarke as SecDef before Kutcher here. At least with him I know he's worked both sides of the aisle and is all about getting the job done instead of currying political favor, which many in the military would respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I do.... Both have their expertise, both have experience, both have long standing careers in the ares of defense.
    See, I think his "qualifications" make him far more suitable to being a National Security Adviser then it does as President. At least in that role he can focus on offering Obama his expertise without having to deal with military personnel on a daily basis as SecDef has to do. Bottom line, probably the most important thing for any SecDef to do at this point is to try and smooth over relations between the Pentagon and the White House and former decorated general is going to be far more useful then someone whose closest experience with conflict is a back and forth with a Russian mediator.

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    Re: Obama chooses Ashton Carter as Pentagon chief

    Not a bad choice, but I do find it unsurprising that Pres. Obama is appointing yet another Harvard connected individual.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Obama chooses Ashton Carter as Pentagon chief

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Because he comes from a think tank background and hasn't seen a day of real world combat. In fact, I dare you to point out one time he was even shot at.
    So he is an "egghead" because he has no direct combat experience? That makes a lot of people who have been involved with wars, defense, national security "eggheads" then by that standard......


    Yes, yes, he's been on an awful lot of committees and boards and groups, but none of that makes him in the least be qualified to be Obama's chief liason to the Pentagon now does it?
    Being directly involved with national security, defense, and foreign relations for the past 22 years doesnt make you qualified?

    And if you were just looking for someone who was bringing attention to terrorism before 9/11, then hell, I'd even take Clarke as SecDef before Kutcher here. At least with him I know he's worked both sides of the aisle and is all about getting the job done instead of currying political favor, which many in the military would respect.
    You keep on bringing up partisanship... He was part of both Democrat and Republican administrations....


    See, I think his "qualifications" make him far more suitable to being a National Security Adviser then it does as President.
    Do you mean secretary of defense?

    At least in that role he can focus on offering Obama his expertise without having to deal with military personnel on a daily basis as SecDef has to do.
    I think either one of them can do both...

    Bottom line, probably the most important thing for any SecDef to do at this point is to try and smooth over relations between the Pentagon and the White House and former decorated general is going to be far more useful then someone whose closest experience with conflict is a back and forth with a Russian mediator.
    And why dont you think Carter cant do this? Because he never served in the military? He has been directly involved in both Democrat and Republican administrations with defense operations and the office itself.


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    Re: Obama chooses Ashton Carter as Pentagon chief

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So he is an "egghead" because he has no direct combat experience? That makes a lot of people who have been involved with wars, defense, national security "eggheads" then by that standard.
    And a lot of them weren't qualified for the position of SecDef. It's fine if you want them to work as NSA, as all that role is about is advising the president on foreign policy, but SecDef's role is more than just that.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Being directly involved with national security, defense, and foreign relations for the past 22 years doesnt make you qualified?
    Not for SecDef it doesn't. I think your really underestimating how important it is for the President to have someone that the Generals directly answer to that he can not only trust, but can also relate to the men in the Pentagon.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    You keep on bringing up partisanship... He was part of both Democrat and Republican administrations....
    He may of been in the think tank scene for both administrations, but make no mistake, the only time he's held any position of political relevance has been during the Obama administration as Under Secretary.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    And why dont you think Carter cant do this? Because he never served in the military? He has been directly involved in both Democrat and Republican administrations with defense operations and the office itself.
    But he's never been a part of the military hierarchy. It be like some nerd heading into the hood and pretending to blend in, hoping that all that studying he did on the internet about what it means to be "from the hood" helps. I don't care if the guy aced the "Thuganomics" course, he still don't belong there.

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    Re: Obama chooses Ashton Carter as Pentagon chief

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    And a lot of them weren't qualified for the position of SecDef. It's fine if you want them to work as NSA, as all that role is about is advising the president on foreign policy, but SecDef's role is more than just that.
    Do you know the best thing about the Secretary of Defense office is? Its that you must be a civilian to hold that office. You cannot be a current active military officer, general, etc. I believe if you were you must be retired for 7 years before you can hold that position. The Secretary of Defense is very much an advisory roll to the president. He is the primary defense advisor to the President.

    Not for SecDef it doesn't. I think your really underestimating how important it is for the President to have someone that the Generals directly answer to that he can not only trust, but can also relate to the men in the Pentagon.
    You talk about generals. Ever hear of the Join chiefs of Staff?


    He may of been in the think tank scene for both administrations, but make no mistake, the only time he's held any position of political relevance has been during the Obama administration as Under Secretary.
    What makes you say his past positions are irrelevant?


    But he's never been a part of the military hierarchy.
    He has been in the Secretary of Defense office for some time, dealt with NATO.

    It be like some nerd heading into the hood and pretending to blend in, hoping that all that studying he did on the internet about what it means to be "from the hood" helps. I don't care if the guy aced the "Thuganomics" course, he still don't belong there.
    Yea I kinda doubt that since he has been around defense, and national security for 20+ years now.


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    Re: Obama chooses Ashton Carter as Pentagon chief

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Do you know the best thing about the Secretary of Defense office is? Its that you must be a civilian to hold that office. You cannot be a current active military officer, general, etc. I believe if you were you must be retired for 7 years before you can hold that position. The Secretary of Defense is very much an advisory roll to the president. He is the primary defense advisor to the President.
    That better describes a National Security Advisor, a position that is still very influential in deciding all sorts of foreign policy issues with one key exception: they are outside the military chain of command. As Kutcher didn't have any combat experience, he's a better fit there to coordinate with someone like Wesley Clark.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    You talk about generals. Ever hear of the Join chiefs of Staff?
    I don't think Obama's on their Xmas card list at the moment, do you? So now you're going to throw in a career "expert" who hasn't served a day of combat and expect them to respect this geek? Odds are they were pulling up underwear of this guys's head in high school...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What makes you say his past positions are irrelevant?
    Because career military guys aren't going to work with a guy who's closes shot to a purple heart came at the hands of a paper cut.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    He has been in the Secretary of Defense office for some time, dealt with NATO.
    The guy does have a filled out resume, I'll give you that. But again, besides being in conference rooms all of his professional life, what has he really done to deserve the second in command spot of the military?

    Bottom line: what does Kutcher here bring to the table that a guy like Clark doesn't it? And just in case you try to flip it around, let me stop you there and remind you that Clark is at least a former decorated officer himself. That means a hell of a lot more to the folks in the pentagon then someone who's been in conference rooms his whole life.

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    Re: Obama chooses Ashton Carter as Pentagon chief

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    That better describes a National Security Advisor, a position that is still very influential in deciding all sorts of foreign policy issues with one key exception: they are outside the military chain of command. As Kutcher didn't have any combat experience, he's a better fit there to coordinate with someone like Wesley Clark.
    "The Secretary of Defense is the principal defense policy adviser to the President and is responsible for the formulation of general defense policy and policy related to all matters of direct concern to the Department of Defense, and for the execution of approved policy. Under the direction of the President, the Secretary exercises authority" Defense.Gov - Top Leaders



    I don't think Obama's on their Xmas card list at the moment, do you?
    No idea

    So now you're going to throw in a career "expert" who hasn't served a day of combat and expect them to respect this geek?
    So now your beef is because he didnt serve in the military? You do realize you dont have to serve in the militarY? You realize that the majority of our secretary of defense's did not serve in the military?

    Odds are they were pulling up underwear of this guys's head in high school...
    Totally....


    Because career military guys aren't going to work with a guy who's closes shot to a purple heart came at the hands of a paper cut.
    How do you know that. You make a lot of broad assumptions that provide no factual backing.

    The guy does have a filled out resume, I'll give you that. But again, besides being in conference rooms all of his professional life, what has he really done to deserve the second in command spot of the military?
    His resume to me makes him look qualified enough.

    Bottom line: what does Kutcher here bring to the table that a guy like Clark doesn't it? And just in case you try to flip it around, let me stop you there and remind you that Clark is at least a former decorated officer himself. That means a hell of a lot more to the folks in the pentagon then someone who's been in conference rooms his whole life.
    What does Clark bring that Kutcher doesnt? Their resumes are incredily similar.


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    Re: Obama chooses Ashton Carter as Pentagon chief

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    "The Secretary of Defense is the principal defense policy adviser to the President and is responsible for the formulation of general defense policy and policy related to all matters of direct concern to the Department of Defense, and for the execution of approved policy. Under the direction of the President, the Secretary exercises authority" Defense.Gov - Top Leaders

    No idea

    So now your beef is because he didnt serve in the military? You do realize you dont have to serve in the militarY? You realize that the majority of our secretary of defense's did not serve in the military?

    Totally....

    How do you know that. You make a lot of broad assumptions that provide no factual backing.

    His resume to me makes him look qualified enough.

    What does Clark bring that Kutcher doesnt? Their resumes are incredily similar.
    I give up. You are refusing to comprehend a word I've said. The reason boils down to that line that I've got in bold. If you want to make the argument that both men are equally qualified then fine, we can talk about that. I actually think it's an important discussion to have regarding how much, if any, military service should be required when selecting a DefSec. But when you dismiss past military service so out of hand, in such a way to denigrate a man who hasn't just been stuck behind a desk his whole career in public service, and say that time he served his country is similar to a guy who's closest he's come to a purple heart (something Clark does have after being shot four times with an AK-47 in Vitenam) would be a damned paper cut... that's infuriating and an insult to veterans everywhere, and I have a lot friends who are active and retired military personnel and they'd say the same thing.

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