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Thread: Payroll employment increases by 321,000 in November; unemployment rate unchanged

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    Re: Payroll employment increases by 321,000 in November; unemployment rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    2 of those three would indicate people have more discretionary income than is captured by median household income numbers.
    Most Americans are generally living paycheck to paycheck. Median household income is merely just a statistic that shows half of the population makes more than your income, while the other half makes less. That is more or less a metric of the standard of living, not the health of the labour market, which is captured particular by average hourly income.

    When average hourly wages rise, this indicates that workers are leaving lower paying jobs to take advantage of higher paying jobs that are being created. When hourly wages have fallen, or are stagnant, that gives an indicator of two things: 1) people are losing their jobs or 2) people are taking employment at the highest possible wage they find. In this case, low wage work.

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    Re: Payroll employment increases by 321,000 in November; unemployment rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    Most Americans are generally living paycheck to paycheck. Median household income is merely just a statistic that shows half of the population makes more than your income, while the other half makes less. That is more or less a metric of the standard of living, not the health of the labour market, which is captured particular by average hourly income.

    When average hourly wages rise, this indicates that workers are leaving lower paying jobs to take advantage of higher paying jobs that are being created. When hourly wages have fallen, or are stagnant, that gives an indicator of two things: 1) people are losing their jobs or 2) people are taking employment at the highest possible wage they find.
    Only when demographics aren't changing.

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    Re: Payroll employment increases by 321,000 in November; unemployment rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    Only when demographics aren't changing.
    Not much within the demographics are changing, so I don't know what you are referring to.

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    Re: Payroll employment increases by 321,000 in November; unemployment rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    Most Americans are generally living paycheck to paycheck. Median household income is merely just a statistic that shows half of the population makes more than your income, while the other half makes less. That is more or less a metric of the standard of living, not the health of the labour market, which is captured particular by average hourly income.

    When average hourly wages rise, this indicates that workers are leaving lower paying jobs to take advantage of higher paying jobs that are being created. When hourly wages have fallen, or are stagnant, that gives an indicator of two things: 1) people are losing their jobs or 2) people are taking employment at the highest possible wage they find. In this case, low wage work.
    Wages have been stagnant since 1980 and the reason is "reaganomics" has weakened the bargaining position of labor through various means. Union busting is but one of those means. I wonder if the people would have been so attracted by the supply side if they were told they would not be receiving any more raises for 35 years?


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    Re: Payroll employment increases by 321,000 in November; unemployment rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Wages have been stagnant since 1980 and the reason is "reaganomics" has weakened the bargaining position of labor through various means. Union busting is but one of those means.

    This is false for the most part.

    Your chart indexes productivity and wages to 1980 inflation, which doesn't make sense really... For the most part, it's misleading.

    I wonder if the people would have been so attracted by the supply side if they were told they would not be receiving any more raises for 35 years?
    Measuring inflation is just as much as an art as it is a science. For the most, wages have outpaced productivity for the past 35 years (or as long as the BLS has been measuring productivity data), and year wages have increased since 1980, depending upon which inflation metric you trust.

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    Re: Payroll employment increases by 321,000 in November; unemployment rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    This is false for the most part.

    Your chart indexes productivity and wages to 1980 inflation, which doesn't make sense really... For the most part, it's misleading.



    Measuring inflation is just as much as an art as it is a science. For the most, wages have outpaced productivity for the past 35 years (or as long as the BLS has been measuring productivity data), and year wages have increased since 1980, depending upon which inflation metric you trust.
    LOL Everybody knows that stagnant wages are a critical problem but you. I suppose this chart is false too. It's wages/GDP


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    Re: Payroll employment increases by 321,000 in November; unemployment rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    LOL Everybody knows that stagnant wages are a critical problem but you. I suppose this chart is false too.

    I don't understand what I'm supposed to see in that chart...

    Stagnant wages are a problem; however, we don't have stagnant wages. We have very slow rising wages. Stagnant wages implies that there is no real wage growth or no growth at all, which is false. Wages have surpassed inflation, but in very small terms.

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    Re: Payroll employment increases by 321,000 in November; unemployment rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    It's wages/GDP

    Okay? What exactly are Wages and Salaries as a percentage of GDP is supposed to show?

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    Re: Payroll employment increases by 321,000 in November; unemployment rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    When has the power not been in the hands of employers? For the most part, employers have most of the power; however, business is not a one way street. The power can absolutely be in the hands of employers if employees find themselves without any leverage. In the early industrialised economy, employers could have taken advantage of low wage work because the industry (for the most part) was very low skilled, as sophisticated machines performed most of the work. This dynamic isn't much different today, as most of the jobs being filled in this economy is low wage work that requires very little skill.

    This is probably one of the reasons why union participation rates are at all time lows, not just in the United States, but all over the world (except in Scandinavia). Today's workplace is increasingly individualised. When you're in a union, your productivity and performance is judged as a whole group. As an individual, you are judged on your own merits.
    i'd say globalization and mechanization have changed the dynamic significantly. to a lesser degree, many states have also enacted measures which make unions less effective.

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    Re: Payroll employment increases by 321,000 in November; unemployment rate unchanged

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    Okay? What exactly are Wages and Salaries as a percentage of GDP is supposed to show?
    That corporations are sharing less and less of their profits with employees. Supply side economics is destroying the middle class. Workers need more wage leverage. Remember it is the middle class that buys all the goods.

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