Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 93

Thread: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

  1. #61
    Sage
    Moot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:24 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    27,467

    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by twixie1 View Post
    Or just send him back where he belongs..which is not America..
    That would be very cruel since the chimp has never lived outside of his cage let alone in the wild.

  2. #62
    Sage
    Moot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:24 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    27,467

    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Newborns have parents who are responsible for their lives - they speak for newborns. In the case of animals = newborns that's silly. Unless you're claiming newborn animals. However, human kind does have a responsibility to manage and speak for the animals - but there are limitations to that. We do not for example see the right to healthcare for animals, nor do humans issue drivers licenses to animals primarily because animals cannot pass the written or (if they cannot write) spoken version of the test. One has to identify the limitations of animals - as they do not have the same ability nor capability as humans.

    This is why you cannot address the obviousness of language and having a goat, for example, taking the stand to communicate they can understand what their rights are and have the ability to utilize those rights. Frankly the subject is ludicrous but I'm indulging this subject out of pure curiosity.

    How can an animal identify their intelligence other than in some form of communication? The chicken who plays checkers may be a good example .... can she (or is it a rooster) communicate to human kind why it has a right to say....rent controlled housing in NYC?

    The point isn't can they communicate, it's can they communicate they can understand and use rights that have been so far used by humans. The answer is obviously no... but please, put a toad on the stand and question him. It's great television.

    The point of this thread is animal rights... you're simply being silly. You're attempting to credit animals with the ability to understand and communicate they can comprehend what animal rights are, and can utilize those rights. Ask the cricket in your basement how he feels...

    The cricket has no rights. Animals have what rights humans believe they should have, not rights that animals think they have.

    Ask your cricket how he feels about being stepped on and tell me what he says. What's pitiful is insane attempts to apply human rights to animals which clearly cannot either communicate, understand, nor exercise those rights. I'm sure it gives people like me something to laugh at, and lawyers something to do; as well it gives silly people something to squawk about.


    Perhaps it's more about...primate rights. A chimp shares 98% of our human DNA...a chicken and a cricket do not. Chimp behavior and emotions are almost identical to human. I think the point is that chimps are not and should not be kept as pets. Trying to give chimps personhood rights might have been well meaning but was in fact a stupid waste of time and money and it didn't help that poor chimp in the cage at all.

    Jane Goodall speaks fluent chimpanzee.....




    If you can't see the similarities you're not human.....

    Last edited by Moot; 12-06-14 at 03:50 PM.

  3. #63
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I never said that "animals = newborns", so that is a strawman.
    You made the comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The point is, you asked for evidence concerning animal intelligence and when I posted some, you went on a tangent about animals testifying in court - an idea that has nothing to do with the specific point we were discussing or with the issue of this thread.
    The point is irrelevant as animals do not have enough intelligence nor communication skills to understand what rights are.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Language is not what you asked about nor was it a part of your original claim, which was a denial of Napolean's statement that "The great apes are capable of reasoned thought, complex perception, and complex emotions. I think they do have natural rights."
    How else are they to communicate and demonstrate "reasoned thought, complex percept and complex emotion" ? Circular logic 101.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Note how it says nothing about language.
    I'm open to how animals are supposed to demonstrate their "rights"


    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    If you are unaware of the methods scientists use to gauge animal intelligence, I suggest that you make Google your friend. In the meantime, your ignorance of the scientific methods does not mean they don't exist.
    The scientific methods used are irrelevant. Have the ape provide his testimony.


    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You see, now *there's* an argument that is on point. Note how it's different than your absurd "Put a cricket on the witness stand"
    How come - you opened the door by stating animal can communicate - so ... let's hear what they have to say.


    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    As I've said several times in this thread...
    If it didn't make sense the first time, saying it several times is a WASTE of time. Have fun.
    Last edited by Ockham; 12-06-14 at 04:43 PM.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  4. #64
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    [QUOTE=Ockham;1064062421]
    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I never said that "animals = newborns", so that is a strawman.
    You made the comparison.
    No, I didn't compare newborns to animals.

    The point is irrelevant as animals do not have enough intelligence nor communication skills to understand what rights are.
    Then that is the point you should have made. Instead, you chose to make a claim which science has disproven

    How else are they to communicate and demonstrate "reasoned thought, complex percept and complex emotion" ? Circular logic 101.
    Again, your ignorance of how it is done does not mean it is impossible. If you want to learn about the subject, I suggest you do your own research.

    I'm open to how animals are supposed to demonstrate their "rights"
    As am I.

    The scientific methods used are irrelevant. Have the ape provide his testimony.
    Yes, science is irrelevant.


    How come - you opened the door by stating animal can communicate - so ... let's hear what they have to say.
    There are forms of communication that are non-verbal. Did you not know this?

    If it didn't make sense the first time, saying it several times is a WASTE of time. Have fun.
    buh-bye!!
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #65
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post

    There are forms of communication that are non-verbal. Did you not know this?
    And what rights and priveledges do the monkeys want with their non-verbal language? Did science bother to ask?


    Sounds to me like someone had one to many magic mushrooms and watched "animal farm".
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #66
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    And what rights and priveledges do the monkeys want with their non-verbal language? Did science bother to ask?
    And again, you're going to have to do your own research. I'm not here to edumacate you on the subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #67
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And again, you're going to have to do your own research. I'm not here to edumacate you on the subject.
    I already know the answer because monkeys cannot comprehend human rights.... Tommy will just get frustrated and fling his poo.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #68
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I already know the answer because monkeys cannot comprehend human rights....
    If this thread is any indication, you know very little about the subject

    Tommy will just get frustrated and fling his poo.
    Your confusing Tommy with the teabaggers
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #69
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    If this thread is any indication, you know very little about the subject
    Apparently more than you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Your confusing Tommy with the teabaggers
    Hardly. No hat and the wrong color

    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  10. #70
    Black Is Smart
    Van Basten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    The New New Frontier
    Last Seen
    11-06-17 @ 07:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    4,661

    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    He's a ****ing chimp, of course he doesn't.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •