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Thread: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

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    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    We need "rules" if you want to give animals "rights". I already agreed with you that we, as humans, owe it to ourselves to be decent to animals. We don't have to be but it reflects badly on us so we set our own standards of conduct to reflect our own values. Rights are a different sort of thing. Rights have to be enforceable and that means that they must be clearly enumerated.
    Do you really need a piece of paper??

    To know it's wrong to make any animals suffer unnecessarily..so then you can kick a sheep around a field..make it suffer when you slaughter it..because ''sheep'' were not
    ''clearly enumerated''??

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    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by twixie1 View Post
    Do you really need a piece of paper??

    To know it's wrong to make any animals suffer unnecessarily..so then you can kick a sheep around a field..make it suffer when you slaughter it..because ''sheep'' were not
    ''clearly enumerated''??
    Whatever. You were the one that mentioned animal rights. I just wanted to see if you would expound on what they were and what animals they applied to. Apparently you don't.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Whatever. You were the one that mentioned animal rights. I just wanted to see if you would expound on what they were and what animals they applied to. Apparently you don't.
    No sorry Papa Bull..I don't have a list..I may just have to leave it down to your morals..

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    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    From the article:



    By that logic, you could make the argument that a chimp is more capable of those things than a fetus is.
    No you could not.

    An unborn child will be able to fill those roles when maturity is gained. The chimp can never gain the ability to fill those roles.

    Chimps are not human, babies - even unborn, are.

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    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Cruelty is cruelty. Being human doesn't give anyone the right to be cruel and inhumane to animals. If Joey is being mistreated they should have just filed cruelty charges and try to get him transferred to a more accommodating facility rather than try to give him personhood rights. That's just nonsense.

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    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncensored2008 View Post
    No you could not.

    An unborn child will be able to fill those roles when maturity is gained. The chimp can never gain the ability to fill those roles.

    Chimps are not human, babies - even unborn, are.
    Yeah, but the court judgment didn't mention the ability to fill those roles in the future, only whether the creature in question can fill them now.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    This case raises the question of what it is that imbues humans with rights. Just today, a right winger explained that our natural rights (which I don't believe in BTW) are a result of our ability to think, hope, aspire, etc. If an animal is capable of those same things, then wouldn't it too have natural rights?
    That is exactly what this case is about. The great apes are capable of reasoned thought, complex perception, and complex emotions. I think those qualities entitle them to "natural" rights recognized by humans.
    Last edited by Napoleon; 12-06-14 at 10:27 AM.

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    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    That is exactly what this case is about. The great apes are capable of reasoned thought, complex perception, and complex emotions. I think they do have natural rights.
    There are two issues:

    1. Science has not yet proven what you believe.
    2. The apes have not developed or humans are incapable of communicating effectively advanced reasoning, perception and emotion such that both can understand each other.

    Until both of those issues are solved, an animal is an animal and a human is a human.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    1. Science has not yet proven what you believe.
    Scientific observation has proven it time and time again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    2. The apes have not developed or humans are incapable of communicating effectively advanced reasoning, perception and emotion such that both can understand each other.
    I don't understand French. Does that mean I can keep a French human locked in a cage as a pet for my own amusement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Until both of those issues are solved, an animal is an animal and a human is a human.
    Humans are animals.

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    Re: US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    I don't understand French. Does that mean I can keep a French human locked in a cage as a pet for my own amusement?
    Aside from being right about that, the fact is that a number of species of animals, including non-primates, are capable of communicating with humans. For example, my dog is able to communicate a wide variety of things such as when she needs to be walked, when she wants food, water, affection, etc. Primates (and other species) are capable of a great deal more.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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