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Thread: Protests in support of Eric Garner erupt in New York and elsewhere

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    Re: Protests in support of Eric Garner erupt in New York and elsewhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    The issue at hand isn't whether many people of color believe they are systematically discriminated against, which I agree they do. My problem is that the line of thought just isn't the case, at least not in the way many blacks want to think it is. Many blacks, and whites for that matter, want to draw a direct line from the racist of the 50's and prior, to the ones that blacks call out today. But the issue is that it isn't the same (and to your credit, you've acknowledged that isn't the case). Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about, from my own experience. There's been a few blacks I've had interviews scheduled with, and the moment they stepped through the door, I told them to turn around and leave. Not because they were black;, I was fully cognoscente of that when I asked them to come in. My problem, is that if you are going to come in looking like your some thug from the streets, I don't want any part of you. Because if I should hire him, I'm taking the risk that this guy doesn't try to rob us blind.
    Oh you're in HR or at least have HR duties? Man, I don't envy that...

    OK. This won't be easy, but if you're serious about addressing this issue, you'll stay with me here. Let's try to put ourselves in that rejected man's shoes. How is he supposed to know that his race had no factor, however small, in determining his instant rejection? Blacks are painfully aware of people's subconscious preference for white people over black people in almost every walk of life. They don't have to read the studies or look at the statistics, because they feel racism in every aspect of our lives. They do not choose to be victims of racism; this is simply the existing reality with which they must contend. That, Hamster, is where you're stuck. You don't get what blacks have been desperately trying to tell whites for a long, long, long time. You choose to not understand that their anger against us is a direct result of their pain from us.

    Examine your white privilege honestly. Try it. It's worth the initial discomfort. Take it from this white guy who didn't even accept the fact that it was a thing for much of his life.

    That is what was going on with that study; why take the chance on a black kid when their are equally qualified whites? It's not racism though because that line of thought isn't without merit. We all know the statistics by now; 1 in 4 African American Adult Males are felons, half of the homicides that are committed in this country are blacks despite the fact they only make up an eighth of the population (with 90% of those blacks killed in black on black crime), blacks have the highest dropout rates, etc. This all is on top of the fact that the black culture isn't exactly conducive to a professional atmosphere, to say the least. All of the above means that blacks are behind the eight ball in terms of starting out.
    With all due deference to your job, if you can't see how that contributes to the cycle of systematic discrimination, then you really can't see the problem itself. Unless we were to live in a lily-white community--and I don't want that--it is imperative to be culturally sensitive in matters such as these. For instance, if a truly unqualified candidate who is black is summarily rejected for an open position, and he starts lashing out verbally at you, then you have a clear responsibility to not let his disrespect cause you to exhibit poor judgment in a way that will cause him harm. This is the critical moment when Darren Wilson and Daniel Pantaleo failed. And I ask you, were this to happen to you: Do you have a game plan ready to execute that will both serve the best interests of your organization and preserve his civil rights?
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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  2. #162
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    Re: Protests in support of Eric Garner erupt in New York and elsewhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    You wouldn't deny though that things have vastly improved for the average black though I assume yes? For instance, do you think that at any point before the 1960's, a black man could of ever been elected president? I'll say it again, the problems that face a black man/woman today, are not the same ones they (and by they, I mean their grandparents in most cases) had to go through. All these people who are protesting now will never have to worry about the fire hoses being turned on them or dogs being sicked on them, just because they want to vote. And as far as listening to blacks, let me point out that there's a problem when you are only hearing from one side of the story. I don't think they should be completely ignored; but I don't think everything they say about race should be taken as gospel with no consideration of the other side.
    I saw a pic in my Facebook feed this morning that perfectly answers this.


    And by the way, there is hope. Look at New Orleans by the way and what they've done to drastically improve their schools and with it, the lives of blacks in that city. Prior to Katrina, the majority black city had a joke of a school system. I think the statistic was that in 2004, only around 33% of the city passed tests at basic level. Since the implementation of a charter system in the aftermath of Katrina, that number has doubled to almost 67%. In fact, New Orleans is on the precipice of setting history of being the first predominantly black school district to out perform it's mostly white state. I believe if a system like they have in New Orleans was implemented nationwide in these Urban areas, we would see a vast improvement in the quality of education and more importantly, the plight of blacks in this country.
    Don't get me started on what has happened to New Orleans's school system. Plus, simply displacing people and replacing them with more well-to-do people does not solve the root problem.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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    Re: Protests in support of Eric Garner erupt in New York and elsewhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I saw a pic in my Facebook feed this morning that perfectly answers this.




    Don't get me started on what has happened to New Orleans's school system. Plus, simply displacing people and replacing them with more well-to-do people does not solve the root problem.



    Utterly stupid, even Garner's wife says it's not about race, as did Akai Gurley's family which is why you don't list him and instead list that store robbing cop robbing thug, brown.


    It's insulting to lump garner who was attacked by a cop with a history of bad behavior to ferguson which was a thug attacking a cop and getting properly shot for it.


    It's a cop/citizen issue, not a black/white one/
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    Re: Protests in support of Eric Garner erupt in New York and elsewhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Oh you're in HR or at least have HR duties? Man, I don't envy that...

    OK. This won't be easy, but if you're serious about addressing this issue, you'll stay with me here. Let's try to put ourselves in that rejected man's shoes. How is he supposed to know that his race had no factor, however small, in determining his instant rejection? Blacks are painfully aware of people's subconscious preference for white people over black people in almost every walk of life. They don't have to read the studies or look at the statistics, because they feel racism in every aspect of our lives. They do not choose to be victims of racism; this is simply the existing reality with which they must contend. That, Hamster, is where you're stuck. You don't get what blacks have been desperately trying to tell whites for a long, long, long time. You choose to not understand that their anger against us is a direct result of their pain from us.

    Examine your white privilege honestly. Try it. It's worth the initial discomfort. Take it from this white guy who didn't even accept the fact that it was a thing for much of his life.
    If you were to say I was racist to black culture, then there you may be onto something. I absolutely despise the thuggery language, the rap, the pants hanging to their knees and all of that, especially when you bring it to a place of business I work for or am a manager at. But keep in mind, that's how the world is; this isn't a phenomenon that is isolated to the US or even white people. If that same black man tries to go up and get a professional job in places in Asia, they're more likely to spit on them before showing them the door. And I have a very similar mindset to them when it comes to presenting an hint of professionalism when you come. You don't have to be wearing Hickey Freeman to impress me though, just don't come in look like you from the streets. And by the way, if I a white kid came in dressed like that, as I've seen before, then I'm showing him the door just as quick. There's an old saying, you dress for the job you want.

    Now if that black man comes to me dressed in the best he can find, and acts respectful and sounds like he can string together a series of words without making himself look like an idiot, then I'll work with him through whatever he's got going on. And for those that I've worked with in the past, that's all that matters. I had a man that came to me once looking for a job, he was an older man, probably in his thirties when I fist met him (I was like 21 at the time, I think). He came in with the absolute worst condition clothes I'd ever seen; his pants I assumed used to be some sort of blue but had been faded and you could see the bleach stains on them and I also noticed a couple holes on the left arm of his coat. He didn't say much actually, and it wasn't until I was looking over his application (there's a team of us that looks through applications and the woman who would of taken his interview was out sick) was that I realized that he wasn't born here, he was from Kenya I think. But what he lacked in style or even language skills, he more than made up for in initiative and just pure desire. I could tell how much he really wanted the job, and for me that's all I needed to know.

    Bottom line: that desire to work, to push yourself to do your very best, that's not a black or white trait. It's a human trait, and in my experience, there's just as many if not more white's that don't have it as blacks.

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    Re: Protests in support of Eric Garner erupt in New York and elsewhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    With all due deference to your job, if you can't see how that contributes to the cycle of systematic discrimination, then you really can't see the problem itself. Unless we were to live in a lily-white community--and I don't want that--it is imperative to be culturally sensitive in matters such as these. For instance, if a truly unqualified candidate who is black is summarily rejected for an open position, and he starts lashing out verbally at you, then you have a clear responsibility to not let his disrespect cause you to exhibit poor judgment in a way that will cause him harm. This is the critical moment when Darren Wilson and Daniel Pantaleo failed. And I ask you, were this to happen to you: Do you have a game plan ready to execute that will both serve the best interests of your organization and preserve his civil rights?
    Well, this isn't really what happened in the Darren Wilson case but, I'll still roll with it. It's happened a couple of times and I've even been called a racist a few times as well. "You don't like how I look because I'm black, you're a racist!" And I'll tell them in a calm fashion, "It has nothing to do with the color of your skin, but in the manner you chose to present yourself." I've had one that actually reapplied about a year later and I decided I'd give him another shot. Needless to say he was much better dressed and better behaved. As I recall, he actually did a superb job once he was hired, I don't ever recall hearing him receiving a write up. He even apologized to me up front, which I appreciated and understand that's a hard thing for any man to do.

    Let me put it to you another way: if there is a systemic racism that exists in the system, it's not due to whites thinking their superior to black people. But what does have to do with, is the current state of black society in this country today which is no small part related to poor access to good quality education (I'm surprised you disapprove of New Orleans Charter system, where the majority of students are still black so it's not like they've moved in a bunch of privileged white kids to boost their scores. I don't think it's a small feat for any predominantly black community to outscore their white counterparts, and that achievement should be celebrated.) and a system of drug laws that have hammered the African American community. I mean, you wouldn't try to imply that the system is loaded against other races would you? Look at how well Asians are doing in this country, they're far ahead of Whites in almost every major category worth mentioning, and it wasn't long ago that we had concentration camps to lock up those dirty japs. Or even with Hispanics, who many are first or second generation immigrants, and yet have still managed to push farther then blacks in several areas. There is some deep fundamental flaws within the African-American community that must be addressed before we can clearly see just how much "racism" holds them back.

  6. #166
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    Re: Protests in support of Eric Garner erupt in New York and elsewhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Because we should never bring up Nazis when referencing anyone here in the US. Honestly, it's no difference than Race Baiting... might as well call it Nazi Baiting.
    Nazi baiting? FFS if Nazism cant be used then Ill ****ing use Commies or will that offend you too? Either way the lessons of WW2 need to be remembered whether you like it or not.


    About Us | OccupyWallSt.org
    "She wants to see a world revolution, starting with a popular uprising against the financial executives who plunder society without contributing any social utility. She hopes that her work will result in a friendlier and more compassionate society."

    Most occupier want to end our government here in the US and replace it with something else. But they dont stop there they want a reboot of society. They want you, me and everyone to act like they do. ANd everyone that doesnt are part of the problem we are the enemy. If I stand up for my country they attack me as if I were a Nazi, so no I wont conform to your silly demands to not compare occupiers to other historical ****heads.

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    Re: Protests in support of Eric Garner erupt in New York and elsewhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    But Black people aren't poor! Look, if you're going to paint with a broad brush and generalize, the least you can do is talking about the majority of the population you are talking about. 30% isn't the majority of Black people for one, and even if we're just talking about "all dirt poor people" you're still wrong. Newsflash: Whites outnumber Blacks in this country 5:1. So let's say with whites, those who live below (or near, all of these numbers I forget to mention include those near the poverty line so stop with that nonsense) the poverty line are 15%. This is simple math dubz: which is more? 30% of 40 Million or 15% of 225 Million?

    Bottom line: Poverty isn't restricted to black people, you'd realize this though if you weren't so, what was it called me? Oh yeah... racist.



    Entertaining the idiotic ideas ends with that line for me. You've clearly demonstrated you aren't open for discussion, nor could you ever find any blame for those within the African American community. It all begins and ends with white people for you doesn't it? You realize that Blacks have been ruling themselves for a long time now in a large swath of Africa, and you know, I don't remember looking over there and seeing a Wakanda in that mix (you'll get that reference when the next Avengers comes out). Perhaps the problems aren't just with whites, just as the problem isn't with blacks alone. We work better as a society, when we work together.

    Maybe you find you have to justify yourself to your "loads of black friends", that you feel guilty for things you've never done. In which case, I feel pity for you. Any time one feels they must justify their opinion with "I have friends of different color", no matter which side of the argument they are, just shows that they've nothing left to offer to a discussion except to justify their inane, and idiotic ideas.

    Good day.
    'Facepalm' you obviously did not read the post. I told you the poverty rate is horrendously flawed because they haven't accounted for cost of living increases since 1964.

    It should be more like 50% for blacks, and higher for all other sections to.

    So whites outnumber Black's 5:1. Their are 197 million whites in America and 45 million blacks. The number of poor blacks is 13.5 mill and whites 19. If America where fair and not racist then their wouldn't only be a 6 million person difference between a group with 1/4 of the population.

    They do not include those near the poverty line, and the poverty line should be much higher. Your willfully ignorant on the matter or just ignorant.

    Your the racist and I never said it was. I said it DISPRAPORTIONALITY EFFECTS BLACKS. please don't put words in my mouth bigot.

    I am open for discussion with those that have a clue what they are talking about.

    How many KKK members are not republican or libertarian? How about peckerwoods? Oh yea none that's right...

    No it all begins and ends with the establishment. Your really good at making things up I didn't say.

    I don't see how blacks ruling themselves in Africa is at all relevant.

    That's the problem people don't work together, and for a large part its because white people don't want to do what's necessary to undue the racism of the last 300 years in this country.

    I don't. Bigots like you that want to do nothing to help ALL poor people do. Furthermore my family was quakers (aka abolitionists) and Jews in Russia that came over 100 years ago.

    Your blatant bigotry shows you have nothing to offer, and have immature and generally racist thoughts about the state of the country and world.

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    Re: Protests in support of Eric Garner erupt in New York and elsewhere

    "So when I say most of the looters were black it is racist?
    But when you say of course most of the looters were black it is proof that my statement is racist?"

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    Hahhahaa

    You know you come off as a bigot in these posts right?
    Do I?

    What's a caliphate again?
    Would you like a link? Or would you like a quote?

    A caliphate is an Islamic state. It's led by a caliph, who is a political and religious leader who is a successor (caliph) to the Islamic prophet Muhammad. His power and authority is absolute.

    I am beginning to believe the US has become a caliphate.

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    Re: Protests in support of Eric Garner erupt in New York and elsewhere

    "You do realize that you are boring, don't you? The majority of the looter were black. It is a fact when I say it and it is a fact when, a few sentences later you admitted it."
    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    You do realize your ignorance is showing right?
    In your opinion were the majority of the Furgeson looters black?

  10. #170
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    Re: Protests in support of Eric Garner erupt in New York and elsewhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    If you were to say I was racist to black culture, then there you may be onto something. I absolutely...

    (snip to get this post under 5000 characters)
    And if you would seek out black voices, you would find that they have these very same concerns, both with the way some of their own dress and behave and the way that all of them are systematically treated. That's just the thing: it's not an either-or choice. I don't like sagging pants either, but you know what? Sagging pants don't infringe upon my freedom. I think "ghetto"-looking cars are trashy, but you know what? They don't infringe upon my freedom. But if I were to fall into the trap of letting a few people whose dress and vehicle choice I dislike turn into a degree of hatred, however slight, then at best I am doing nothing to help the bigger situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Well, this isn't really what happened in the Darren Wilson case but, I'll still roll with it. It's happened a couple of times and I've even been called a racist a few times as well. "You don't like how I look because I'm black, you're a racist!" And I'll tell them in a calm fashion, "It has nothing to do with the color of your skin, but in the manner you chose to present yourself." I've had one that actually reapplied about a year later and I decided I'd give him another shot. Needless to say he was much better dressed and better behaved. As I recall, he actually did a superb job once he was hired, I don't ever recall hearing him receiving a write up. He even apologized to me up front, which I appreciated and understand that's a hard thing for any man to do.

    Let me put it to you another way: if there is a systemic racism that exists in the system, it's not due to whites thinking their superior to black people. But what does have to do with, is the current state of black society in this country today which is no small part related to poor access to good quality education (I'm surprised you disapprove of New Orleans Charter system, where the majority of students are still black so it's not like they've moved in a bunch of privileged white kids to boost their scores. I don't think it's a small feat for any predominantly black community to outscore their white counterparts, and that achievement should be celebrated.) and a system of drug laws that have hammered the African American community. I mean, you wouldn't try to imply that the system is loaded against other races would you? Look at how well Asians are doing in this country, they're far ahead of Whites in almost every major category worth mentioning, and it wasn't long ago that we had concentration camps to lock up those dirty japs. Or even with Hispanics, who many are first or second generation immigrants, and yet have still managed to push farther then blacks in several areas. There is some deep fundamental flaws within the African-American community that must be addressed before we can clearly see just how much "racism" holds them back.
    At least you acknowledge the possibility of systematic racism. But then you fall into the old trap of blaming the victims without recognizing why a disproportionate number of blacks behave in ways that most whites do not approve of. It's like playing a rigged game, and if you get desperate enough, you just might resort to cheating, or worse. That and poverty, I believe, are the main fuels of bad behavior from blacks. Give them true justice and opportunity, let it set in as a fundamental part of our society, and I guarantee you that the situation will change overnight.

    A word about Asian-Americans. They, too, were systematically oppressed as you mentioned, but right around the time that the civil rights movement picked up steam, the powers-that-be suddenly began to patronize them as a "model minority," which really meant that they didn't buck the system to try to overcome their oppression. And all of a sudden, once that was lifted, the fates of Asian-Americans made a change for the better! It was almost like the anti-Latino sentiment in reverse. I specifically remember conservative white Americans' repeatedly patronizing Latinos over a decade ago, but now, the talk has become much nastier.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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