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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

ferguson and this story: two episodes of large men disobeying police orders(after breaking the law) and ending up dead. I'm sorry, but the average american isn't going to get upset at that no matter WHAT COLOR THEY ARE because the average american DOESN'T disobey police orders OR break the law. That is the honest truth. So you can waste your breathe trying to rationalize that away until the cows come home, it still won't be a major issue in this country except to a small minority.

Tomorrow, if a black man who works at an accountant's office with no criminal record is pulled over for speeding and ends up dead on the street, THEN COME AND TALK TO ME. I will share your outrage. till then you are just trying to build something that won't stand up no matter how hard you try.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Ah, so he said that? :)



Do you believe the Pantalano's history of harassing suspects led to him not wanting to let Garner go? ;)
I certainly believe his history comes into play when looking at the facts. Absolutely! Pantalano was not the officer confronting Garner. Pantalano IS the guy that took him to the ground, released the choke hold and held him down while he was being cuffed. I didnt see him strip searching the suspect, nor did I see him keeping the hold in place after the suspect was on the ground.

Here is the ABSOLUTE fact and reality. Had you or I been that suspect we would not even know about this. It wouldnt be an issue. I wouldnt not have (and I highly doubt you would have either) had a cardiac arrest because I dont think you are morbidly obese. The 'choke hold' was not abusive, excessive, wasnt applied longer than needed, and did not cause his death. period.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The source for that, such as it is, is a conservative anti-tax organization, which in turn cites a study put out by a think tank partly funded by the tobacco industry. Apparently there's a lot of estimation, and very little actual research.



Yet again: Blaming this outcome on cigarette taxes is absurd.

The NYPD use significant levels of force to arrest people for all sorts of minor infractions. As I've posted multiple times already in this thread, here's a video of an NYPD officer striking 20 year old Donovan Lawson with a baton, with 2 other officers joining to detain him. Donovan's criminal act? Jumping a subway turnstile, instead of paying the $2.50 fare. Even if you think the level of force was appropriate, this clearly demonstrates that there is no real connection between the actual nature of the infraction, and the level of force used by the NYPD during the arrest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVoOQbDT1QE



Are choke holds allowed? Because they're banned by the NYPD.



It's disgusting that conservatives are trying to blame this on, of all things, cigarette taxes.

It's repulsive that some people are apparently just fine with minimal review of police officers who cause the deaths of suspects in their custody.

It's astounding that some people will go to any lengths to avoid any discussion of race in the issues of police and community relations.

It's unfortunate that some people use this incident to indulge in their routine bashing of specific political figures. Many of whom just happen to be black. Hmmmm.

They should give up cigarettes. It's a nasty habit.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Ah, so he said that? :)



Do you believe the Pantalano's history of harassing suspects led to him not wanting to let Garner go? ;)
Do you believe people who vote for a 190% increase in cigarette taxes fair because they don't approve of smoking? And when they do creates a smuggling problem? That these voters allowed those they voted into office to increase the harshness of the laws on selling untaxed cigarettes to no longer be treated like a parking ticket but were willing to use their police department to shake these people down and arrest them like any other criminal to be justified?

Do you believe liberals should maybe take a look in the mirror and understand the consequences for turning their cops into tax collectors? That maybe they should revisit the excessive taxes they were so willing to put on cigarettes created the problem with smuggling in the first place? That maybe their war on smoking has had some real bad consequences?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Do you believe people who vote for a 190% increase in cigarette taxes fair because they don't approve of smoking? And when they do creates a smuggling problem? That these voters allowed those they voted into office to increase the harshness of the laws on selling untaxed cigarettes to no longer be treated like a parking ticket but were willing to use their police department to shake these people down and arrest them like any other criminal to be justified?

Do you believe liberals should maybe take a look in the mirror and understand the consequences for turning their cops into tax collectors? That maybe they should revisit the excessive taxes they were so willing to put on cigarettes created the problem with smuggling in the first place? That maybe their war on smoking has had some real bad consequences?

Would you rather have the tax collector be the one collecting the taxes.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

ferguson and this story: two episodes of large men disobeying police orders(after breaking the law) and ending up dead. I'm sorry, but the average american isn't going to get upset at that no matter WHAT COLOR THEY ARE because the average american DOESN'T disobey police orders OR break the law. That is the honest truth. So you can waste your breathe trying to rationalize that away until the cows come home, it still won't be a major issue in this country except to a small minority.

Tomorrow, if a black man who works at an accountant's office with no criminal record is pulled over for speeding and ends up dead on the street, THEN COME AND TALK TO ME. I will share your outrage. till then you are just trying to build something that won't stand up no matter how hard you try.

This is what I have been saying. There ARE legitimate instances of police brutality and it DOES deserve a platform. But too many people keep trying to enter broken down nags into the Kentucky derby. After a while...it just gets tired.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Would you rather have the tax collector be the one collecting the taxes.
The problem in NYC isn't going to go away because the people have created it. After all, they love someone else paying for things so they don't have to. Sin taxes have always been popular in achieving just that. It's that mentality that "I don't smoke and I don't chew and I don't go with those who do". If it is a means to collect revenue that won't effect them personally and keep their taxes lower so they don't have to produce the needed revenue, then they are gun ho! Unfortunately, stats show those who smoke are often middle to low income. And when you hike taxes that high on a product that is legal but has the highest addiction level, folks in those income levels could no longer afford to purchase them and that is what opened the door for a lucrative business in smuggling. Now with the new laws that became effective this year in NYC, those who smuggle/sell untaxed cigarettes are treated like the suspect that robbed a bank. That is soooooo unfair to the police officer whose duty is to enforce the laws.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

They should give up cigarettes. It's a nasty habit.

It's the tax system that's corrupt and Eric Garner is just another victim of government overkill. (pun intended) When you have the IRS attacking with SWAT Teams and their officials taking the fifth, and confiscatory taxes created because a bureaucrat feels strongly on an issue (the soda tax would fall into the same category) then it may be time to reflect on some of the social harm many of these strong-arm tactics and consequent social problems create.

There are governmental problems everywhere, including the entire infrastructure, and yet these incompetents are assuming ever more power over the American people. While the Leftists clearly supported the Nevada rancher against the IRS I'm surprised that so many Conservatives support what an obviously overzealous police force did to Eric Garner.

Rather than focusing on small timers like Eric Garner, who was only responding to a need in the marketplace and selling a legal product, there are far bigger issues that should be attracting more attention from those Americans who look for a more conservative and traditional attitude to what's happening in the country.

American Inertia :: SteynOnline
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

New headline on Eric Garner that's sure to make conservatives feel differently: Union Member Kills Free Market Activist.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

New headline on Eric Garner that's sure to make conservatives feel differently: Union Member Kills Free Market Activist.

Yeah, hey guys, let's all look at issues based on headlines like Rocket does! No reason to learn the facts.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Yeah, hey guys, let's all look at issues based on headlines like Rocket does! No reason to learn the facts.

So the policeman wasn't a union member? I find that hard to believe.

I must have touched a raw nerve. You don't like having your nose shoved in it do you?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

That jaywalking thug got what she deserved!

:2razz:

I'm sure citizens are safe since the scantily clad jogger/j-walker has been cuffed and removed from the streets of Austin, Texas. She could have been hiding a bomb in her, well...
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Still making it up as you go?

The facts released in this case are mere inconveniences to posters in denial about what happened.

It doesn't seem to fit their narrative about cops.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064062225 said:
The facts released in this case are mere inconveniences to posters in denial about what happened.

It doesn't seem to fit their narrative about cops.

:lamo How can you post with a straight face, you have done nothing but ignore the facts we do know and speculated wildly about the rest we don't.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

In case no one yet has answered the silly question, "was he really under arrest?":

At 10 p.m., the NYPD's press office issued the following statement about Garner's death:

"On Thursday, July 17, 2014 at approximately 1648 hours, police observed a 43-year-old male selling untaxed cigarettes in front of 202 Bay Street within the confines of the 120 Precinct. Upon attempting to arrest the suspect for the violation, the suspect went into cardiac arrest and was transported by EMS to Richmond University Medical Center where he was pronounced DOA. The Medical Examiner will determine the cause of death. The investigation is ongoing."

Public records show Garner was out on $4,000 bond or $2,000 cash bail -- he has three pending criminal cases against him, all involving charges of possession and sale of untaxed cigarettes, from arrests in May, March and last August. In the August case, police also charged him with aggravated unlicensed operation of a vehicle, false personation and marijuana possession.

Differing accounts emerge as NYPD identifies man who died while being arrested in Tompkinsville | SILive.com
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

If the windpipe wasn't collapsed, he didn't choke to death.
For the third time (is it third? I've lost count):

You asked "The ME said the police killed him? Link?"

I gave you numerous links. All of which say:

The cause of Garner's death was "compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police," said Julie Bolcer, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner's office. The death was ruled a homicide.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

It's the tax system that's corrupt and Eric Garner is just another victim of government overkill. (pun intended)
And if Woody had gone straight to the police, none of this ever would have happened!

This has absolutely nothing to do with cigarette taxes, or any of the other nonsense you posted.

The NYPD (and many other departments) have spent well over a decade utilizing the "Broken Windows" theory of policing. They aggressively target minor offenses, on the theory that if you stop the minor offenses, then you prevent the more serious offenses. (Since crime rates have been declining fairly regularly in NYC since the early 1990s, it's not clear that it actually works.)

As a result, the NYPD routinely holds a zero-tolerance policy towards just about any infraction whatsoever. A joint in the pocket, beating a $2.50 subway fare, vandalism, whatever. Cops will be on you... especially if you're black or Hispanic.

The fact that Garner happened to be stopped for illegally selling single cigarettes has absolutely nothing to do with what happened to him. He apparently died while in police custody because while they were trying to detain him, they compressed his neck and chest, and kept him in a prone position.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

New headline on Eric Garner that's sure to make conservatives feel differently: Union Member Kills Free Market Activist.
That was quite a good response! Certainly an improvement over the usual leftist segue.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

So the policeman wasn't a union member? I find that hard to believe. I must have touched a raw nerve. You don't like having your nose shoved in it do you?
Now it's back to the usual. You really should have quit while ahead.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

And if Woody had gone straight to the police, none of this ever would have happened!

This has absolutely nothing to do with cigarette taxes, or any of the other nonsense you posted.

The NYPD (and many other departments) have spent well over a decade utilizing the "Broken Windows" theory of policing. They aggressively target minor offenses, on the theory that if you stop the minor offenses, then you prevent the more serious offenses. (Since crime rates have been declining fairly regularly in NYC since the early 1990s, it's not clear that it actually works.)

As a result, the NYPD routinely holds a zero-tolerance policy towards just about any infraction whatsoever. A joint in the pocket, beating a $2.50 subway fare, vandalism, whatever. Cops will be on you... especially if you're black or Hispanic.

The fact that Garner happened to be stopped for illegally selling single cigarettes has absolutely nothing to do with what happened to him. He apparently died while in police custody because while they were trying to detain him, they compressed his neck and chest, and kept him in a prone position.
I'm familiar with the "|Broken Window" theory and certainly have seen the positive consequences. However we also have to consider where the Broken Window theory stops and an overzealous police state begins. This is Barney Fife run amok.

Why do you suppose the police wanted to question Garner?
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

New headline on Eric Garner that's sure to make conservatives feel differently: Union Member Kills Free Market Activist.

Good afternoon Rocket,

A more fulsome new headline would be "New Yorkers elect liberal/socialist as Mayor and one of his first orders is for Union Bureaucrats to crack down on Underground Economy - Mayor Claims Amnesia when instruction leads to death of supporter"
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

:lamo How can you post with a straight face, you have done nothing but ignore the facts we do know and speculated wildly about the rest we don't.

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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I posted the reports, he died either in the ambulance or the hospital. He had a heart attack in the ambulance so he was definitely alive after the scene.

As to officers giving CPR, it's not about training in CPR, they all have that. It's about the protective gear EMT's use to shield them from disease transmission during CPR. And chest compressions while someone is breathing is definitely not a helpful thing.

I know. I just misunderstood what when he actually stopped breathing, wrongly thinking it was while still in the custody of the police.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Having learned about jumping to conclusions, after seeing the chokehold and learning of the man's later death by heart failure, I believed that the grand jury had more evidence than I and a better grasp of the potential charges which may have applied to this situation, unfortunate as it was. After watching the poor man lay on the sidewalk, apparently dead, I think charges should have been brought against all the cops involved.

They could have given the man a ticket for selling cigarettes if it's really that big a deal.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The video only starts when the incident occurs.. its hard to tell what kind of resistence he puts up during the altercation. Without the entire situation caught on film,, its hard to tell if the action of the officer was legitimate or not.
 
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