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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:
You misunderstood by a country mile. I was saying it is not against the law for ANYONE to do a choke hold. Try reading the post I was responding to.
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choking someone is an attempt at lethal force. Period. Thats like saying there is no law saying you cant get a chair with a bunch of knives tied to it and stab someone with it there fore you are allowed to tie knives to a chair and stab someone with it. To choke someone is to attempt to possible kill them.

If joe dirt chokes his girlfriend for 2 seconds and she dies i wonder what happens to joe dirt the hillbilly trailer man. A cop does it for longer on cam and well.. i guess we seen the repercussions so far.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

dirtpoorchris said:
choking someone is an attempt at lethal force. Period. Thats like saying there is no law saying you cant get a chair with a bunch of knives tied to it and stab someone with it there fore you are allowed to tie knives to a chair and stab someone with it. To choke someone is to attempt to possible kill them.
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Entirely wrong if you recall we're not talking about "choking someone" but a choke hold (a distinction with a difference). Otherwise are you contending all MMA wrestlers should be under charges?

dirtpoorchris said:
If joe dirt chokes his girlfriend for 2 seconds and she dies i wonder what happens to joe dirt the hillbilly trailer man. A cop does it for longer on cam and well.. i guess we seen the repercussions so far.
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Never been choked during sex? Not my thing, but I did try it once with my then wife. Never seen an MMA cage match?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

jmotivator said:
You said that before, but you don't actually have the information necessary to make that claim with any certainty.
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Yeah, I do. If Garner attempted to flee or assaulted an officer, the NYPD is under no obligation whatsoever to withhold that information from the public. The NYPD would be announcing it, loud and clear, in order to justify the use of force.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Visbek said:
Yeah, I do. If Garner attempted to flee or assaulted an officer, the NYPD is under no obligation whatsoever to withhold that information from the public. The NYPD would be announcing it, loud and clear, in order to justify the use of force.
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No, you are speculating. You may be correct, but it is speculation.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

ReverendHellh0und said:
indeed, always submit....


San Antonio cop cuffed and raped 19-year-old during traffic stop: police - NY Daily News

Cop who kicked cuffed woman in the face fights for job* - NY Daily News




There are literally thousands of these.
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From the San Antonio story:

The accusations of sexual misconduct are the third against Neal, the police chief told the Express-News.

Another woman claimed Neal attacked her a few years ago but later decided not to cooperate with investigators, McManus told the paper.

Neal was suspended for three days in September for dating an 18-year-old member of the San Antonio Police Explorers, a program for young people interested in a career in law enforcement, the Express-News reported.




Looks like they knew they had a bad egg on their hands and didn't do a thing about it.

There are literally thousands of these stories in recent times? I doubt that.

There are a handful of bad cops. Nobody would dispute that. But 99.9999999% of the population will never meet them, just like 99.999999% of the population will never meet up with a serial killer.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:
Actually no. I have seen no one on either side of the issue defending choke holds as regular police procedure. Nor violence. But his actions led to what you are characterizing as violence, which in this case was an orchestrated and trained maneuver to subdue caused entirely by his resistance to being cuffed.
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Death definitely subdues someone.

A more effectively and safely orchestrated method to subdue Mr. Garner would have been to have shot him in the back of the head by your reasoning and justification.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:
Entirely wrong if you recall we're not talking about "choking someone" but a choke hold (a distinction with a difference). Otherwise are you contending all MMA wrestlers should be under charges?



Never been choked during sex? Not my thing, but I did try it once with my then wife. Never seen an MMA cage match?
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Look.. If some random crack head punches me. And I choke them for even 1 seconds and they die. its my fault.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:
No, you are speculating. You may be correct, but it is speculation.
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I have absolutely no doubt, and no reason to doubt, that if Garner had assaulted a cop that would be public knowledge.

There is absolutely no legal reason for the NYPD, or the arresting officers, to withhold that information.

Witnesses are not bound by the law to be silent. Anyone who saw the incident has a right to tell anyone they want their version of events. I haven't seen a single witness claim he punched a cop. Have you?

And of course, claiming he did try to flee or assault an officer is not just speculation, it's baseless speculation. No one has reported any such occurrence, thus there is no reason to try and claim it. In contrast, and as I said: If he had assaulted an officer or tried to flee, the NYPD have a strong motivation to tell the public, in order to justify their conduct. They haven't.

Thus, I am highly confident that when Garner resisted arrest, he did not flee and did not use violence.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:
You'd have to understand the coroner's findings, which you so obviously do not.
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Why do you bother constantly posting what you know are wrong claims that are known untrue? In a sense it is only a self personal attack against integrity.

"The medical examiner said compression of the neck and chest, along with Garner's positioning on the ground while being restrained by police during the July 17 stop on Staten Island, caused his death."

It's not like this hasn't been posted dozens of times and was splashed all over every form of mass media.

Are you confusing the Ferguson Missouri shooting of Michael Brown by Officer Wilson with this chocking death of Mr. Garner? :confused:
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:
Death definitely subdues someone.

A more effectively and safely orchestrated method to subdue Mr. Garner would have been to have shot him in the back of the head.
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Sure, I'll let you suggest that policy since you dreamed it up. Anything else you want to tell us about yourself because that comment is pretty revealing.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

tres borrachos said:
From the San Antonio story:

The accusations of sexual misconduct are the third against Neal, the police chief told the Express-News.

Another woman claimed Neal attacked her a few years ago but later decided not to cooperate with investigators, McManus told the paper.

Neal was suspended for three days in September for dating an 18-year-old member of the San Antonio Police Explorers, a program for young people interested in a career in law enforcement, the Express-News reported.




Looks like they knew they had a bad egg on their hands and didn't do a thing about it.

There are literally thousands of these stories in recent times? I doubt that.

There are a handful of bad cops. Nobody would dispute that. But 99.9999999% of the population will never meet them, just like 99.999999% of the population will never meet up with a serial killer.
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Your 99.9999999% is overstated. That's less than 1 person - in the entire country or even the entire world.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

apdst said:
The police didn't kill him. He was overweight and in I'll health and made his own decision to resist arrest.
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He was just fine before they put him in a choke hold and compressed his chest.

It didn't help that they neglected to revive him for several minutes after he lost consciousness. Got a good way to dispense with that form of negligence, too?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

dirtpoorchris said:
Look.. If some random crack head punches me. And I choke them for even 1 seconds and they die. its my fault.
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No, that is a BAD comparison. Mr. Garner has not punched anyone nor threatened anyone.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:
Why do you bother constantly posting what you know are wrong claims that are known untrue? In a sense it is only a self personal attack against integrity.

"The medical examiner said compression of the neck and chest, along with Garner's positioning on the ground while being restrained by police during the July 17 stop on Staten Island, caused his death."

It's not like this hasn't been posted dozens of times and was splashed all over every form of mass media.

Are you confusing the Ferguson Missouri shooting of Michael Brown by Officer Wilson with this chocking death of Mr. Garner? :confused:
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Notice I wasn't denying the findings, just your ability to understand what it means in real and medical terms. And where did I make any claim that was untrue? In fact you were asserting falsehoods in the same post where you posted this finding and that precisely what I was pointing at. You posted a falsehood, then posted the finding proving yourself wrong.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Visbek said:
He was just fine before they put him in a choke hold and compressed his chest.

It didn't help that they neglected to revive him for several minutes after he lost consciousness. Got a good way to dispense with that form of negligence, too?
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"The medical examiner said compression of the neck and chest, along with Garner's positioning on the ground while being restrained by police during the July 17 stop on Staten Island, caused his death."

He's a medical examiner. Who are you? Tell us your medical and autopsy credentials.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:
Your 99.9999999% is overstated. That's less than 1 person - in the entire country or even the entire world.
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It wasn't a real ****ing number.

But technically it's not less than 1 person, it would be 3.25 people. And it isn't a real ****ing number.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:
Sure, I'll let you suggest that policy since you dreamed it up. Anything else you want to tell us about yourself because that comment is pretty revealing.
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It is your reasoning. The action that lead to his death and endangered everyone was correct because it subdued him. That is YOUR claim.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Visbek said:
He was just fine before they put him in a choke hold and compressed his chest.

It didn't help that they neglected to revive him for several minutes after he lost consciousness. Got a good way to dispense with that form of negligence, too?
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NO, no he wasn't. His state of health has been posted numerous times. Why continue to post falsehoods?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

tres borrachos said:
It wasn't a real ****ing number.

But technically it's not less than 1 person, it would be 3.25 people. And it isn't a real ****ing number.
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Hmmm... 9,999,999.... 350,000,000. OK, you got me! :lol:
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:
No, that is a BAD comparison. Mr. Garner has not punched anyone nor threatened anyone.
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Which is why its a better comparison. Garner assualted no one. If a crack head punches me once and I choke him, he dies. Its my fault. Garner is on a pedastal above that. He never did any voilence what so ever.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

VanceMack said:
No...the coroner doesnt. In fact the coroner cited all of those problems as contributing factors.
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"Contributing factors" are irrelevant. It is the direct causation of death that is relevant. The fact that he was obese does make his life worth less or mean that a homicide is not a homicide, which is the tone that many seem to apply here.

As a matter of illustration, there is a guy here in Colorado that is serving a life sentence for manslaughter for a "mercy killing" of his 90 year old father. I'm certain that wasn't a very difficult "kill"... and surely the father's age and fragility were "contributing factors" in his death. Those factors, however, had zero weight in the determination of the guy's guilt and seemed have zero weight with the judge, who showed no mercy when pronouncing sentence.

A homicide is a homicide.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:
It's just the same video we've all seen with a new commentator. None of his info has been vetted. Brings nothing new to the table.
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But do you really need to have his commentary/account confirmed? Can we not accept eyewitness testimony or accept what we see with our own eyes from the video account?

A few things are plainly clear and cannot be denied:

- Mr. Garner was attacked from behind by NYPD while trying to explain to them "he did nothing wrong" (in his opinion).
- The cops on the scene never announced they were placing Mr. Garner under arrest before they moved in to subdue him.
- Mr. Garner was never "Mirandized" (read his rights). (But to be fair, he was never taken into custody.)
- At least one NYPD officer continued to use excessive force even after Mr. Garner "stopped resisting". (You can even hear one police officer say "he's not resisting" in the video as other officers continued to subdue him while he was on the ground.)
- Mr. Garner stated at least 11 times "I can't breath" and police continued to subdue him even when it was clear he wasn't resisting arrest and he was in physical distress.

You don't need vetting to see the above as actual facts of events as they played out.
 
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