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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

ReverendHellh0und said:
but the cops had NO RIGHT to instigate the detainment. He had committed no, and was not observed committing a crime, his only fauly was being known by the arresting officers for his priors.
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Fight the laws. Fight the circumstances of the law. Fight the charges. Hell...if I was a smoker, Id fight the obscene taxes that make store bough cigarettes so high priced they have created a black market for what you have described as 'loosies'.

Look if you get pulled over and ticketed for a bull**** violation and you know and truly believe it is a bull**** violation, where do you win that fight? Do you win it on the street with the officer or do you win it in court?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

apdst said:
You first, money. ;)
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I just did. Look at the first word in that post. You asked a question and my response was: No.

Now, you gonna answer mine or run away?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Moot said:
If NY politicians aka government hadn't put such a heavy tax on cigarette packs in the first place... then perhaps there wouldn't be a demand or a market for "lucie's" in the second place....and people like Gardner wouldn't be criminals for selling a single cigarettes in the third place...and then dying for it in the fourth place.

It all seems to point back to some stupid law passed by politicians that makes criminals out of innocent people and dependent on the penal/ welfare system for the rest of their lives. That's if it doesn't kill them first.
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You are right; its moot. Actually, less than moot; its completely irrelevant and a diversion to the discussion of the issue at hand.

.... of course, we could also digress into the subject about the 35 year bifurcation of the American economy into the haves and have nots that had this guy selling these cigs in the first place.... but that would also be irrelevant and a diversion to the discussion of the issue at hand.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
I do. The federal level is operating as a tyranny. It will only get worse. Nationalize the police and take away the grand jury and all we have left is a revolution.
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1) No one is talking about nationalizing the police. Not even close.
2) Plenty of nations don't use grand juries, and have not collapsed into tyranny. (Unless you have a patently ridiculously low barriers for your definition of "tyranny.")


We cannot always see the ones who are broken by trials for crimes they never committed. I brought a lawsuit and won. But it cost me dearly. It costs the state nothing.
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1) I have no interest whatsoever in your personal business.
2) Yes, it does cost the State to pursue cases in court. Prosecutors don't have unlimited budgets; cities don't have unlimited resources.


Be careful what you wish for. Tyranny nearly always is included in your bargain.
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From what I can tell, you probably think Chipotle is an instrument of tyranny. :mrgreen:

Meanwhile, the real tyranny right now seems to be that police can kill citizens with impunity, even when the individual is unarmed, not violent, resisting arrest by waving his arms, and a suspect in a non-violent offense.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Misterveritis said:
You have not seen the evidence. Or are you claiming that you were on that grand jury?
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I've seen enough to reasonably believe that the officer should have been indicted. Not necessarily convicted, but certainly indicted.

Or are you suggesting that no one is entitled to an opinion about this situation?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

brothern said:
No, not really -- It works perfectly. America views crime as an 'exception' to the higher righteous path. Thus when our white cops kill blacks and then exonerate themselves for it, the blame can be placed on the failure of the black person to be living that holy righteous path, rather than it being understood that (1) people are products of their circumstances -- i.e. the cyclical nature of poverty -- or (2) that we have a systemic corruption of our police forces -- i.e. the Blue Code of Silence.

Then we whites can all shake our heads and blame black people for being forced to live in slums with no jobs, where the local schools are sunk by how this country funds education (through property taxes of the local community, i.e. the slum) and where the streets are full of desperate impoverished, uneducated people doing their best to stay afloat.
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You could place the blame where it belongs. Liberal democrats built a welfare state to ensare as many as possible. It is regrettable that so many were ensnared, whether black, brown or white. To fix it begin to dismantle the welfare state. Reduce the massive numbers of regulations and the extreme taxes. Let people be entrepreneurs instead of criminals. There is no reason other than the desire for plunder backed up by the penal code to keep people from selling cigarettes on the streets or renting out rides in their cars.

Look to liberalism if you want to get to the root cause of why this one black man died after resisting arrest.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
You could place the blame where it belongs. Liberal democrats built a welfare state to ensare as many as possible. It is regrettable that so many were ensnared, whether black, brown or white. To fix it begin to dismantle the welfare state. Reduce the massive numbers of regulations and the extreme taxes. Let people be entrepreneurs instead of criminals. There is no reason other than the desire for plunder backed up by the penal code to keep people from selling cigarettes on the streets or renting out rides in their cars.

Look to liberalism if you want to get to the root cause of why this one black man died after resisting arrest.
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Was this guy on welfare? :roll: I thought he was a big bad dealer in the lucrative cigarette trade....
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
Look to liberalism if you want to get to the root cause of why this one black man died after resisting arrest.
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Liberalism encouraged a police officer to use a choke hold, and another officer to kneel on his back and compress his chest? That's quite the leap of logic.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:
It appears clear at this point that he was never told he was being placed under arrest - though it claimed somehow he was resisting arrest anyway.

Apparently, if you resist being assaulted by police it is "resisting arrest." "Assault" and "Arrest" thus mean the same thing.
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Do you believe that all of history began when a camera was turned on? Was everything chaos before God called for lights, camera, and Action?

Is it possible that everyone existed prior to the beginning of the portions of history you saw and interpreted? Is it possible that there was some meager reality that existed prior to the start of that small snippet of time you viewed?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
Do you believe that all of history began when a camera was turned on? Was everything chaos before God called for lights, camera, and Action?

Is it possible that everyone existed prior to the beginning of the portions of history you saw and interpreted? Is it possible that there was some meager reality that existed prior to the start of that small snippet of time you viewed?
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It is possible that the future controls the past and not the other way around.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

shrubnose said:
And now he's dead. I don't smoke but I don't believe that I have the right to tell others not to smoke.

Or sell cigarettes.

I don't believe that Eric Garner should be dead. From what I've read the man died because he was selling loose cigarettes. I wonder how many more people in New York will suffer the same fate.
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When liberals and liberalism run amok people get hurt. People die. Now is a good time for a tax revolt. There should be one rule for sales taxes.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:
No, being detained and being arrested are not the same.
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It doesn't have to be the same. Regardless if the police proceed to search, detain or arrest, you do not resist. She resisted the moment she was asked to step outside the vehicle.

No, but it can be a consideration in setting bond
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If you're indicted and it is mentioned that you tried to flee the seen of a crime, it can potentially be bad.

Police are now trained to shout "don't resist, stop resisting" if cameras are running. It is not resisting arrest when a person is instinctively trying to not be physically harmed.

There is nothing in that video I find shocking or troubling, other than she didn't resist arrest. That is routine "I don't like you" escalating the charge. Probably also charged with assault claiming she tried to roll the window up on the officer's fingers.
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She was informed she was being detained. She was ordered to step outside the vehicle. She refused. How is that not resisting? They had to break her window to get her out of the car...

Of course, the officer COULD have just handed the clip board thru the what was then 2/3rd open window rather than he "I'm protecting myself." But why make it easy over a traffic ticket when you can make prove your authority over everyone and anyone, huh?
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That's a mistake. The window is actually supposed to be rolled 1/4th of the way. Open enough so that you can have a conversation and pass documents through the window. If the window is not down far enough, the police cannot be able to see if there are any weapons concealed. So yes, it is about their safety too. They're still not allowed to search inside your car.

However, just imagine how much simpler it all would have been if she would have just rolled her window down...
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:
The question presumes, of course, you were NYPD there.

Thinking of it in REAL terms?

I won't have done anything whatsoever. Someone in a store says there's a guy in front of his store selling cigarettes. Did I see it? No. Did anyone but that person in the store as far as I know? No.

I'd say to that guy "You know selling cigarettes on the street is illegal, don't you?" and leave.

Your turn, what would you do? Would you also have snuck up behind him, jumped up on his back and put a chock hold on him?
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No, of course not. I already posted what I would have done.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:
You were ok with that too, weren't you? The kid was committing a crime and resisted - or at least indicated he was going to resist. Clearly the officer had to put him into submission to stop or prevent submission. Right?

The knockout game very much was on video. And the race issue very much talked about.
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The kid didn't have a chance to resist. The cop flies in to the screen and football tackles the kid and proceeds to beat the **** out of him. He outweighs the kid by probably 100 lbs. If I find it again on Youtube I'll post it. But keep on throwing **** against the wall to see if it will stick, Joko, one of these days you might get one right.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Jack Fabulous said:
Civil rights violations are currently being investigated by the feds. I would be SHOCKED if the cops involved with this are not brought up on civil rights charges. I expect convictions, also.


I still can't believe they were not indicted by the grand jury. Very sad set of events to this point.
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What civil right do you believe was violated?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

WallStreetVixen said:
As I said before, it probably started out with something small like a ticket. Things tend to escalate if you argue with police, as they always do.
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If you argue with the police, they will send five men to take you down, put you in a chokehold, and take you by force?

here in the USA?

Not just in a dictatorship?

Holy crap. We already have a police state.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Hatuey said:
Ummm... what the hell are you on about? Yes it does. I showed you video depicting what happened before and after the original video. What missing footage are you talking about? Wait.. how do you know there is missing footage? :)
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Again, I am asking about the cut at 1:15 in your video. You don't have that video. In none of the video do we have what caused the transition between sitting and listening and arresting.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

jmotivator said:
Again, I am asking about the cut at 1:15 in your video. You don't have that video. In none of the video do we have what caused the transition between sitting and listening and arresting.
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Eh, this is based on another what if isn't it? Okay, we don't have video for... what could be 3 seconds, 5 seconds, the 2 seconds it takes to send a message and what? Here, I'll get your started on your next weak argument:

What if........ (You can complete the rest of this exercise in meaningless supposition and theorizing.)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

"Is all killing criminal?"
Bodhisattva said:
No... but this one was.
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Even if you were on the Grand Jury it clearly was not. Your peers, evaluating the same evidence you hears dod not agree with you.

"I encourage you to move to New York and volunteer for Grand Jury duty."
Why? I support my community where I live now.
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That should be sufficient for you. This is a local issue. You are part of that locality. Their Grand Jury heard the evidence and decided there was insufficient evidence to charge someone with a crime.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Texmex said:
Guess what, the public doesn't agree with your ignorant assessment. Deal with it.
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Given that the Grand Jury reviewed all of the evidence and determined that there was not sufficient evidence to charge someone with a crime are you now calling for mob justice? Are you calling for a good, old fashioned Democratic Party lynching?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
"Is all killing criminal?"

Even if you were on the Grand Jury it clearly was not. Your peers, evaluating the same evidence you hears dod not agree with you.

"I encourage you to move to New York and volunteer for Grand Jury duty."

That should be sufficient for you. This is a local issue. You are part of that locality. Their Grand Jury heard the evidence and decided there was insufficient evidence to charge someone with a crime.
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I understand. They are wrong though...
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Hatuey said:
Eh, this is based on another what if isn't it? Okay, we don't have video for... what could be 3 seconds, 5 seconds, the 2 seconds it takes to send a message and what? Here, I'll get your started on your next weak argument:

What if........ (You can complete the rest of this exercise in meaningless supposition and theorizing.)
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What if ....
they treated tax evaders in the board room as harshly as they do some guy selling untaxed cigarettes?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Bodhisattva said:
Reasonable reaction actually... but you are free to be emotionally compromised about it if you like.
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I believe the Grand Jury had final say. You prefer the mob, apparently. Given that my stance is within the norms of our civil society and you are asking for the same actions that democratic party lynch mobs used in times past who do you really believe is emotionally compromised?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:
You don't understand how Grand Juries are selected, do you?

We can see and learn more evidence than that Grand Jury because there is no filter for us and there was for the GJ.
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In most places I have lived it was from voters registrations and property tax records. Most places have Grand Juries running all of the time. Most hear evidence for a few days and then are released.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Dittohead not! said:
What if ....
they treated tax evaders in the board room as harshly as they do some guy selling untaxed cigarettes?
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What if... Clive Bundy had been dragged out on the streets like a dog for refusing to pay the millions he owed in taxes and parading his gun in front of LEOs?

We'd have some posters in this thread screaming bloody murder and big government.
 
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