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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

He'd already been arrested 31 times, 8 times for selling black market smokes.

How many convictions and for what?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

True, police never have to arrest anyone or do anything UNLESS under a specific order by a court - and then it would only be possible contempt of court. A group of police officers would eat popcorn watching a gang rape and they would not have committed any offense.

Police decide who to give a ticket, who to give a pass. What kid to take in, what kid to take home. Police decide what laws to enforce and who to enforce them against all the time.

It's actually incredible that someone who calls themselves a Libertarian would try to argue that cops have to arrest people. How old would a person have to be to live in such a fairytale world? 15? 16? He probably just got his first copy of Ayn Rand's Atlas... poor fella.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

How many convictions and for what?

Does it matter? Selling contraband cigarettes is no more a crime than a kid selling lemonade without a damn business license. It's like people lose all common sense when it involves police action. Hell, he could have had 1,000 convictions and none of it would have a made a difference. The discussion is not about his convictions, it's about the treatment he received and whether it was legal.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I wouldn't have.
Write him a ticket if he's doing something he shouldn't. Selling cigarettes isn't an arrestable offense.

The question presumes, of course, you were NYPD there.

Thinking of it in REAL terms?

I won't have done anything whatsoever. Someone in a store says there's a guy in front of his store selling cigarettes. Did I see it? No. Did anyone but that person in the store as far as I know? No.

I'd say to that guy "You know selling cigarettes on the street is illegal, don't you?" and leave.

Your turn, what would you do? Would you also have snuck up behind him, jumped up on his back and put a chock hold on him?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Oddly enough, most nations have eliminated grand juries, without the disastrous tyrannical consequences.

By the way, don't you already classify the US as a "tyranny" anyway...?

I do. The federal level is operating as a tyranny. It will only get worse. Nationalize the police and take away the grand jury and all we have left is a revolution.

We cannot always see the ones who are broken by trials for crimes they never committed. I brought a lawsuit and won. But it cost me dearly. It costs the state nothing. Be careful what you wish for. Tyranny nearly always is included in your bargain.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Does it matter? This was no more a crime than a kid selling lemonade without a damn business license.

My point was that "arrests" do not equal any wrongdoing at all.

Kids have been threatened with arrest for lemonaide stands. I don't think any have been jumped from behind in a chock hold while 2/3 more officers jumped on him.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

True, police never have to arrest anyone or do anything UNLESS under a specific order by a court - and then it would only be possible contempt of court. A group of police officers would eat popcorn watching a gang rape and they would not have committed any offense.

Police decide who to give a ticket, who to give a pass. What kid to take in, what kid to take home. Police decide what laws to enforce and who to enforce them against all the time.




Police should enforce crimes that deprive others of thier liberty. This was a tax collection gone fatal with no probable cause.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Do you agree that all the Liberals who only complain about these cases, because it involves a black person, is a race hustler?

Don't know. I was pretty steamed about that mentally ill homeless white guy that got mobbed to death screaming for his father to help him out in California.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

I've seen the video. Garner was unarmed and non-violent. One of the officers used a choke hold. Another pushed his head into the ground, and sat on his back, compressing his chest.

The autopsy indicated that both of these were instrumental in causing Garner's cardiac arrest.

I also know that grand juries almost never decline to indict. It's not a system where evidence is challenged; it's almost always a mere formality. It certainly doesn't match the level of scrutiny of a full file.

But hey, why talk about police brutality and injustices of the courts, when we can bitch about taxes? :roll:

It’s Incredibly Rare For A Grand Jury To Do What Ferguson’s Just Did | FiveThirtyEight

You have not seen the evidence. Or are you claiming that you were on that grand jury?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

My point was that "arrests" do not equal any wrongdoing at all.

Kids have been threatened with arrest for lemonaide stands. I don't think any have been jumped from behind in a chock hold while 2/3 more officers jumped on him.



I've been jumped by 7. in front of cbgb's when I was a kid. I totally deserved it. Eric Garner did not. lol
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

“I became a police officer to help people and to protect those who can’t protect themselves," Pantaleo said. "It is never my intention to harm anyone".

That's an odd thing to say after using an illegal choke-hold on a New York citizen who eventually died from Pantaleo's actions.
Grant, it was not illegal. It was unauthorized.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

No. :shrug: Your turn. :)

Here is the question: Do you believe all of the conservative members who have agreed that this was a case of excessive force are race hustlers?

Yes or no question apdst. :)

You first, money. ;)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Does it matter? Selling contraband cigarettes is no more a crime than a kid selling lemonade without a damn business license. It's like people lose all common sense when it involves police action. Hell, he could have had 1,000 convictions and none of it would have a made a difference. The discussion is not about his convictions, it's about the treatment he received and whether it was legal.

another death due to nanny state government
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I do. The federal level is operating as a tyranny. It will only get worse. Nationalize the police and take away the grand jury and all we have left is a revolution.

We cannot always see the ones who are broken by trials for crimes they never committed. I brought a lawsuit and won. But it cost me dearly. It costs the state nothing. Be careful what you wish for. Tyranny nearly always is included in your bargain.

You have become a total contradiction now. GJs are no safeguard against anything. 3 no-bills in 5 years out of 250,000 GJ presentations. And you claim GJs are a safeguard against unjustly being taken to trial.

I've noticed how often you debate yourself - give little mini lectures back and forth at yourself.

Way back the Perry Mason "examining trials" were a good thing, as were coroner's inquiries. Both were eliminated as they gave citizens a right to some say and defense prior to being put on trial was to costly and bothersome to the government. It is FAR easier to negotiate a plea bargain telling poor people who can't post to plea out or stay in jail a year waiting for trial.

The ENTIRE criminal justice system is built around forcing people to plea out. Rich people can fight. No one else really can.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You are minimizing the cops culpability. They never should have been so aggressive for a suspicion of a misdemeanor violation.


This could have been handled with "we got your number eric, we'll be back with a warrant for you home", or some such. He was not observed committing a crime or in possesion of contraband, the police had no probable cause.


The man should not have died for being fed up with harassment.
The man should not have resisted arrest. And I agree...he shouldnt have died. Thats tragic. Thats a shame. That was caused by too many donuts and not enough time on a treadmill. That entire phsycial exchange lasted about 20 seconds. The exchange wouldnt have happened at all had he cooperated with law enforcement like you and everyone else here KNOWS he should have done.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Grant, it was not illegal. It was unauthorized.




****, according to the police commishoner it wasn't even a choke hold, nevermind that any 3 month student of brazillian Jiu Jitsu learns the proper way to apply that choke.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

You have not seen the evidence. Or are you claiming that you were on that grand jury?

Obviously you claim you were. Tell us what happened. There has to be some basis for your incessantly claiming the GJ heard all relevant evidence and witnesses. What is that basis?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Really? What they did to him was "standard procedure?" And you approve of it obviously.

What is the standard procedure for committing a burglary? Obviously if "standard procedure" it's legal. Defense attorney's should remember the "standard procedure" defense.
"He didn't rape her in other than in the standard procedure for rapists." Clearly then "Not Guilty."

IN FACT, I do believe THE PRIMARY COMPLAINT OF PROTESTORS IS THAT IS STANDARD PROCEDURE FOR THE NYPD.

I'm not sure I agree with you that ALL NYPD act this way, but maybe you know more about that than I do.
Dood resists arrest. Dood is arrested. SOP. You want to see these kinds of needless deaths stop?1-stop committing criminal acts and 2-stop thinking you have this right to NOT comply with law enforcement. Brown would be alive today if he had simply said, sorry man...we'll get out of the middle of the road. Garner would have been alive today had he said OK...but Im fighting it in court. I dont know...maybe he felt like 31 was not going to be his lucky number.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The man should not have resisted arrest. And I agree...he shouldnt have died. Thats tragic. Thats a shame. That was caused by too many donuts and not enough time on a treadmill. That entire phsycial exchange lasted about 20 seconds. The exchange wouldnt have happened at all had he cooperated with law enforcement like you and everyone else here KNOWS he should have done.


but the cops had NO RIGHT to instigate the detainment. He had committed no, and was not observed committing a crime, his only fauly was being known by the arresting officers for his priors.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

If he broke departmental policy and someone died as a result, why SHOULDN'T he lose his job? Bonus points if you can explain it without whining about "community organizers."

This sounds good to me.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Uh, no. Even an instance of an unjust trial does not necessarily condemn the entire system. Nice try though.

Right! :lamo
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

If NY politicians aka government hadn't put such a heavy tax on cigarette packs in the first place... then perhaps there wouldn't be a demand or a market for "lucie's" in the second place....and people like Gardner wouldn't be criminals for selling a single cigarettes in the third place...and then dying for it in the fourth place.

It all seems to point back to some stupid law passed by politicians that makes criminals out of innocent people and dependent on the penal/ welfare system for the rest of their lives. That's if it doesn't kill them first.

Just remember the politicians that did this had an undisclosed lean, I mean were liberal democrats. They only did it for the children.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I wouldn't have.
Write him a ticket if he's doing something he shouldn't. Selling cigarettes isn't an arrestable offense.

As I said before, it probably started out with something small like a ticket. Things tend to escalate if you argue with police, as they always do.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Yep. Too big to fail and too fat to be arrested. What an awesome country. We are led by Marxists and have become a nation of sheep and fools.

We have our very own criminal class. We call them politicians.

.... I don't know, it increasingly seems like the police are a part of that criminal class
 
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