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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

JumpinJack said:
I heard on a news report that he died of compression to the neck area and I think his back, as it compressed his chest area. Cause of death. The report didn't say heart attack caused his death. But maybe the coroner found that it was the compression that caused the heart attack and so was the cause of death. Not sure. The coroner's report is probably on the internet somewhere.

Compression may not be the same thing as "suffocation," which is the word you use. I didn't hear "suffocation" being used by the coroner. But maybe it's just semantics.
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I think so.

The bottom line for me is that I think we're WAY too race-conscious in this society, and when I see stories like this one on the news I tend to react negatively toward it.

Some people, particularly in the liberal media and among black community leaders, look at any arrest made by a white police officer on a black man as a racial incident. We've seen a string of these stories in the media lately, and, frankly, it's been questionable whether the officers even did anything wrong at all.

I'm not saying police brutality, or police abusing their power isn't a problem. It most certainly is. I'm not even saying that blacks don't get unfairly profiled and harassed by white officers. I don't doubt that happens. I am just saying that these specific incidents aren't the best examples.

But maybe that's me seeing things through the eyes of a white man, that's where I come from.

The only fact I know for sure is this: white cops beat up blacks, black cops beat up whites, whites commit crimes against blacks, and blacks commit crimes against whites.

What seems disingenuous to me is that you only ever hear one side of the story.... you only ever hear about the white cops that target black men, or the white teens that do some hate crime against black teens. You never hear the other side, even though it happens just as often.

When I was researching this stuff, I ran across a youtube video of a large black cop who runs up out of nowhere and knees a white teen in the back, knocks him down, then proceeds to pummel him while yelling "move so I can beat your ass." Apparently the kid was skateboarding somewhere he wasn't supposed to, and he got lippy with the cop. Why wasn't THAT video on CNN? Why wasn't the race angle of the "knockout game" played up more in the media?

I just grow cynical of the agenda. If it's racial one way, then it's racial both ways. Both races have some bad eggs, sometimes they're cops, sometimes they're criminals. The sooner we all realize that and stop defending a bad person just because they share our skin color, the better off we'll all be IMO.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:
Obviously not. The best thing for him to do would have been to confess to whatever the officers said, done or said anything, , faked a heart attack, got on his knees begging for his life. Said, done anything, anything at all to keep his wife from becoming a widow and his children having no father. He should have considered the police more dangerous than any street gang.

Unfortunately, he mistakenly believed he had human and civil rights in relation to the police. It cost him his life.
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He does have civil rights, but unfortunately he didn't use any. Perhaps his biggest flaw was that he talked too much.

Most people who think they have nothing to hide speak alot, then they end up getting convicted for being honest, or blunt in this case.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Peter Grimm said:
I think so.

The bottom line for me is that I think we're WAY too race-conscious in this society, and when I see stories like this one on the news I tend to react negatively toward it.

Some people, particularly in the liberal media and among black community leaders, look at any arrest made by a white police officer on a black man as a racial incident. We've seen a string of these stories in the media lately, and, frankly, it's been questionable whether the officers even did anything wrong at all.

I'm not saying police brutality, or police abusing their power isn't a problem. It most certainly is. I'm not even saying that blacks don't get unfairly profiled and harassed by white officers. I don't doubt that happens. I am just saying that these specific incidents aren't the best examples.

But maybe that's me seeing things through the eyes of a white man, that's where I come from.

The only fact I know for sure is this: white cops beat up blacks, black cops beat up whites, whites commit crimes against blacks, and blacks commit crimes against whites.

What seems disingenuous to me is that you only ever hear one side of the story.... you only ever hear about the white cops that target black men, or the white teens that do some hate crime against black teens. You never hear the other side, even though it happens just as often.

When I was researching this stuff, I ran across a youtube video of a large black cop who runs up out of nowhere and knees a white teen in the back, knocks him down, then proceeds to pummel him while yelling "move so I can beat your ass." Apparently the kid was skateboarding somewhere he wasn't supposed to, and he got lippy with the cop. Why wasn't THAT video on CNN? Why wasn't the race angle of the "knockout game" played up more in the media?

I just grow tired of the agenda. If it's racial one way, then it's racial both ways. Both races have some bad eggs, sometimes they're cops, sometimes they're criminals. The sooner we all realize that and stop defending a bad person just because they share our skin color, the better off we'll all be IMO.
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This isn't about race. It's the treatment of one human being by others.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Gaius46 said:
What special treatment was he looking for? By all accounts he wasn't breaking any laws and was tired of being hassled. Should he have just shut up and complied? Absolutely. On the other hand the cops absolutely could've handled it much better.

And his 30 priors were all low level BS. The dude was not a drug kingpin. Just a schmuck trying to earn a couple of extra bucks at the margins for what's essentially a victimless crime.
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You should be protesting the liberal massive taxes New York City extracts from all. Liberals made it a crime. Liberals sent the police officers out to stop it. Protest the appropriate thing.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Misterveritis said:
You should run to your local courthouse and volunteer to be on a grand jury.

You have no idea what the grand jury heard as testimony. But you want revenge. This is the worst of human instincts.
Great. Get your revenge. And then brace yourself for what must come. You are begging for tyranny. And if you succeed you shall have it.
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Right, we don't know what the Grand Jury heard but it would have to be remarkable if it goes against what this video clearly shows. I have to wonder if they even saw the video.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
Cool. So in New York City a grand jury is optional? The government can charge anyone they want for whatever they want without independent citizen involvement? If that is the case then why ever convene a grand jury? Why not just give the prosecutor an enemies list and let him go at it?
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I don't know how the grand jury system works. And don't have the ambition to look into it. But I can absolutely assure you that not every prosecution requires a grand jury. As a matter of fact, if you remember Zimmerman, the DA was heartily criticized because she elected NOT to convene a grand jury.

Okay, here ya' go:

The Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides, "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
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IOW, not every prosecution (in fact, few of them) require a grand jury.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Texmex said:
No one with any sense wants to join the Tea-baggers.
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I am certain you wouldn't. Some people are near comatose and have no idea they are the ones being screwed by the coercive regulations and confiscatory taxes. The fun part is the usual suspects liked what you wrote. I am not surprised. It is a shame I have so many infraction points. I would love to use some of them in this post.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Misterveritis said:
You should be protesting the liberal massive taxes New York City extracts from all. Liberals made it a crime. Liberals sent the police officers out to stop it. Protest the appropriate thing.
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Just as it's not a Black/White thing, nor is it a Liberal versus Conservative thing. It's a man's inhumanity to man thing.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Grant said:
This isn't about race. It's the treatment of one human being by others.
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The only reason this made the news was because the media wanted to keep pushing the Furgeson angle. There are literally thousands of police brutality cases that get filed each year. Hell, do a youTube search, you'll be shocked at some of the stuff people have caught on camera.

It's no coincidence that this story, now, gets airplay on the major networks, while some of the more egregious cases of police brutality that have been caught on tape simply go ignored.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
Why aren't you attacking the liberal establishment that has added taxes upon taxes upon taxes and constrained and restricted people from starting businesses?
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Because cigarette laws did not cause the police officers to use excessive force, in violation of their own police department's code of conduct.


This case cries out for an anti-tax rebellion. Ultimately it is liberalism that is at the root of this man's death.
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Right. Anything to avoid any racial aspect of the case, or recognition of police brutality.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Ikari said:
Why? The constitution already restricts.government and defines its purpose. The government is limited. If they're already not listening to the Constitution, what would an amendment do? We already have restrictions and laws, they merely need to be adhered to.
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Sometimes the Constitution needs some fine tuning to prevent tyrants from reigning indefinitely.

You are like many who shrug and throw up your hands instead of doing what is necessary to preserve liberty. Very well. Arm up. The time of troubles will come if we do not have a Convention of States under Article V of the Constitution.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Peter Grimm said:
The only reason this made the news was because the media wanted to keep pushing the Furgeson angle. There are literally thousands of police brutality cases that get filed each year. Hell, do a youTube search, you'll be shocked at some of the stuff people have caught on camera.

It's no coincidence that this story, now, gets airplay on the major networks, while some of the more egregious cases of police brutality that have been caught on tape simply go ignored.
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I have no doubt that the racial angle will be played or that it may be the reason for its newsworthiness. But the actions themselves, which is what we are discussing here, was not about race. If I am wrong, and if it was, all these officers should be charged.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Hatuey said:
Sure they are,

In one you defended a man resisting lawful government action.
In the other, you supported police harming an unarmed civilian for selling untaxed cigarettes.

Those are two different issues in which your inconsistent positions on accountability are more than obvious. :)
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Both were lawful. There is no difference between them.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

WallStreetVixen said:
My firm is in midtown in the building of what was formally known as Lehman Brothers, so that is quite a distant. The only time I am close to the financial district is when there are open house events at Goldman Sachs, which is also not in the financial district (weird, I know).

But I'll try visiting sometime.
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Barclays?





Bullish on China, I see.
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Got what i wanted and then some. ;)
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Misterveritis said:
The Grand Jury, I am certain, was advised about the law as part of the evidence. Stop being a little boy. Put on your big boy pants.
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Why? Any reason you are certain of that?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Misterveritis said:
Both were lawful. There is no difference between them.
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Ummm... so resisting the government's lawful actions is lawful? Lmao. Eh alright.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Peter Grimm said:
When I was researching this stuff, I ran across a youtube video of a large black cop who runs up out of nowhere and knees a white teen in the back, knocks him down, then proceeds to pummel him while yelling "move so I can beat your ass." Apparently the kid was skateboarding somewhere he wasn't supposed to, and he got lippy with the cop. Why wasn't THAT video on CNN? Why wasn't the race angle of the "knockout game" played up more in the media?
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You were ok with that too, weren't you? The kid was committing a crime and resisted - or at least indicated he was going to resist. Clearly the officer had to put him into submission to stop or prevent submission. Right?

The knockout game very much was on video. And the race issue very much talked about.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Misterveritis said:
You should be protesting the liberal massive taxes New York City extracts from all. Liberals made it a crime. Liberals sent the police officers out to stop it. Protest the appropriate thing.
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NYC taxes aren't bad. I'm paying more now that I live in suburban Suffolk than I did when I lived in the city. Though overall I do pay a boatload in taxes.

The policy in question was mayor Bloombergs if I recall. He's really a Republican.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Misterveritis said:
You should be protesting the liberal massive taxes New York City extracts from all. Liberals made it a crime. Liberals sent the police officers out to stop it. Protest the appropriate thing.
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Seriously? A New York cop chokes a low-level bad-behaviour perp and people should protest liberalism?

Ahemcoughtunnelvisioncough
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CanadaJohn said:
Just as an aside, I've been reading through this thread - I'm a slow reader and I like to get everyone's take - and I'm heartened by the number of people of all walks and all political ideologies who are, like myself, troubled by this event. While I don't know that the officer would have been convicted, I believe a trial on a lesser charge would have allowed the community to pass judgement more fully and would have informed the police on community standards as they relate to police enforcement.
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It is true that people are emotional. It is also true that watching a video does not give one all of the relevant facts. We do not put people through a trial simply so others can feel good about themselves. We have Grand Juries who evaluate the evidence the prosecutor has to determine if there is sufficient evidence to charge someone with a crime. This is a check against tyranny. Without it an officer of the government can charge anyone with any crime no matter whether there is evidence or not. By having a dozen or more of your neighbors review the evidence and then vote to charge or not, the prosecutor is stymied from being an agent of tyranny.

Justice was done. Set aside your feelings and reason.
 
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