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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Sorry, just going from what has been reported in the press.

Sure...and the coroners preliminary report DID cite his hypertension, apnea, asthma, blood pressure, etc (all related to his morbid obesity) so it is a fair assumption. ESPECIALLY since there is absolutely no way POSSIBLE the 'choke' caused his death.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Probably not the choke holding, probably not the piling on of other officers once the individual as given up. You know, just curbing the excess force a tad.
I will bet that when the autopsy report is finally released that we will find he died of a heart attack. The 'choke hold' was applied for 8 seconds. Just long enough to get him from up to down.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The contradictions in your posts are getting insanely ridiculous.

First you claim the police told him to leave in the video.
Then, when asked to show us in what part of the video, you come back to claim this assertion is based on the commentary of one person. Meaning, you can't really show us when the police told him to leave.
Then you tell us you're wondering about the fight which isn't in the video either but is only supported by that commentary.

You're desperately looking for an argument and I'm really just done with your ducking and dodging. Not only could you not support your assertions about what was said in the video, you relied on someone's commentary and the questioned the part of that commentary which doesn't help you. Here's the question again and for the last time, hell, I'll even make it clearer so you won't try and dodge: At what minute:second can the police be heard telling him to leave?

I told you where I heard it, the exact second. I've grown tired of your bizarre games. The fellow taking the vid said he was ordered to leave. Do you somehow assume it wasn't the police that did that? I don't know where you're going to jump next to justify the failure of all your arguments thus far. I've read in this thread that it was the store that called police in the first place to have him removed. Is that not true? Do you even know?

I'm done with you, I've allowed you to string me along for too long now. Cling to the ignorance.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

:lamo Still refusing to learn about the system you want so much to comment upon. In a grand jury the prosecutor's evidence is cross examined to determine if it's enough to bring charges.

You are still dodging....

Afraid of a real unbiased trial....
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I will bet that when the autopsy report is finally released that we will find he died of a heart attack. The 'choke hold' was applied for 8 seconds. Just long enough to get him from up to down.



If you have a heart issue and if you interupt flow for 8 seconds bad **** can happen,
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death



First video - 0:00-0:44
Second video - 0:44-2:49
Third video - 2:49-10:24.

You're welcome! :)



"Hey, could you back up, we're trying to get him some air!"

:lamo
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I told you where I heard it, the exact second.

No, you told me who you heard it from. I asked you when they asked him to leave. You presented commentary by a second source claiming they asked him to leave. That you're now trying to dishonestly trying to exchange that with what you originally claimed you'd heard is absolutely astounding.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You are still dodging....

Afraid of a real unbiased trial....

Again, learn a little bit about how our system works and you won't have to make silly statements. Jury trials are anything but unbiased. They are in fact a meeting ground, a battle of competing biases seeking to win the day. The jury signs on to one bias or the other.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I will bet that when the autopsy report is finally released that we will find he died of a heart attack. The 'choke hold' was applied for 8 seconds. Just long enough to get him from up to down.

So the coroner's report ain't good. And maybe he died of a heart attack...induced by the excessive force used by cops to take him in.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

If you have a heart issue and if you interupt flow for 8 seconds bad **** can happen,
If the autopsy showed the choke hold interrupted blood flow (for even 8 seconds) then I suspect that would have been the lead statement. What is most telling is that they havent provided the autopsy report. Considering the video and the size of the individuals, I truly doubt a carotid choke hold was cinched in. But...I have reserved anything definitive because we dont know.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

So the coroner's report ain't good. And maybe he died of a heart attack...induced by the excessive force used by cops to take him in.

Have you seen the coroners report? Id actually really like to see it. Can you post a link?

Maybe he DID INDEED die of a heart attack. But excessive force? Dood was taken to the ground and handcuffed. Thats pretty standard and appropriate procedure for resisting arrest.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

:lamo Still refusing to learn about the system you want so much to comment upon. In a grand jury the prosecutor's evidence is cross examined to determine if it's enough to bring charges.

There is no cross examintion during a grand jury since defense council (and normally the accused) are not present. All evidence and witness statements are provided by the prosecutor and are examined (not cross examined) by the jurors.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cross-examination
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

30 black men are killed by PD per 1,000,000.

1 white man is killed by PD per 1,000,000.

Micheal Brown's death is not an anomaly.

If you're going to try to build a case on stats then make sure you tell the whole story. That includes key stats like breaking down by race what percentage of suspects are resistant or aggressive with officers.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The loosie sellers make more money when they buy packs from back alley importers (Canada is a prime source), or even online. These are not taxed cigs. Plus as I mentioned they sell to children that cannot buy them at the store legally.

Stop talking. Cigs are taxed. If you buy them from Canada which is highly unlikely since you are paying the same amount. Those cigs are coming from Virginia, PA, Maryland or anyone on the I-95 corridor. Can't stop that, can't prevent it and NYC and NY itself is punishing people doing nothing illegal in the sense they paid taxes on those cigs in those states they bought them at. What NY and NYC did is make it illegal to give or sell cigs between consumers (loosies) as they seem them as contraband.

This is about NY and NYC wanted more and more money and because they ****ed up and priced themselves out of a market and NYC sits on the border of a few states who have cheaper cigs, they had to take it out on someone.. and this someone is people who did nothing illegal just a few years ago.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

There is so much more to know though. I accept he died of a cardiac arrest. I read that he had an enlarged heart and organs and there was significant fat buildups though the aorta was intact and normal. There are a lot of contributing factors. Sure...officers attempting to arrest you after you resisted attempts to detain can certainly cause problems. So could bending over and tying ones own shoes for someone that size. Or eating that last taco. Or trying to have sex. Or taking a dump.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Stop talking. Cigs are taxed. If you buy them from Canada which is highly unlikely since you are paying the same amount. Those cigs are coming from Virginia, PA, Maryland or anyone on the I-95 corridor. Can't stop that, can't prevent it and NYC and NY itself is punishing people doing nothing illegal in the sense they paid taxes on those cigs in those states they bought them at. What NY and NYC did is make it illegal to give or sell cigs between consumers (loosies) as they seem them as contraband.

This is about NY and NYC wanted more and more money and because they ****ed up and priced themselves out of a market and NYC sits on the boarder of a few states who have cheaper cigs, they had to take it out on someone.. and this someone is people who did nothing illegal just a few years ago.

I Love 'Loosies': In Defense of Black Market Cigarettes*|*Christopher Mathias

Canada's boom in smuggled cigarettes | Center for Public Integrity

Also it is far easier to order untaxed American cigs online from Canada, and very easy to smuggle them into NYC. This has gone on for decades.

Now I'll stop talking, YOU, start reading.

Btw, your presumption that buying cigs legally in one state and then transporting them to another and reselling them for what you paid for them is legal, is incorrect. It is very much illegal and the feds will be all over your ass for doing so. Guess what the T in ATF stands for.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I think he had a heart attack. Often, one of the tell-tale signs of a heart attack is shortness of breath.

I read up on this case a little bit more, and confirmed it. He died of coronary problems, not suffocation.

I heard on a news report that he died of compression to the neck area and I think his back, as it compressed his chest area. Cause of death. The report didn't say heart attack caused his death. But maybe the coroner found that it was the compression that caused the heart attack and so was the cause of death. Not sure. The coroner's report is probably on the internet somewhere.

Compression may not be the same thing as "suffocation," which is the word you use. I didn't hear "suffocation" being used by the coroner. But maybe it's just semantics.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death


Good for him, still doesn't change what I said. NYC and NY priced themselves out of the market.

Canada's boom in smuggled cigarettes | Center for Public Integrity

Also it is far easier to order untaxed American cigs online from Canada, and very easy to smuggle them into NYC. This has gone on for decades.

Again, this isn't illegal. If you notice in your article the biggest sellers are Native Americans who get benefits for being of tribe status. This isn't new and it's rich Canada and US are bitching because they can't revoke status any time they want.. So try again.

Btw, your presumption that buying cigs legally in one state and then transporting them to another and reselling them for what you paid for them is legal, is incorrect. It is very much illegal and the feds will be all over your ass for doing so. Guess what the T in ATF stands for.

ATF doesn't do Tobacco anymore, it's actually changed when Homeland Security bill was passed which took and created Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau and left "ATF" with firearms and explosives. ATTTB only cares when the cigs are imported (or giving out licenses) into the US as they are a federal agency. They don't give a flying **** about someone driving down to Virginia to bring cigs up to NY and selling them. What you fail to grasp is they are taxed at some point along the line. The farmer has to pay the government for the crop and no tribe in Canada is growing tobacco, or even New York. So right off the bat, that Tobacco is taxed.

Problem comes from States who have budget issues and the first thing the hike taxes on are "sin" items as it's less voters you piss off but since States tax differently and some States have to act tough and be police state over the matter.. which NY and NYC are. There in lies the problem. To collect the tax, it requires more man hours, time of court and such then actually collected. Which is why it's asinine.

They are literally have cops patrol for a "loose". Did all else crime stop?

But as the poem goes..

Tax his land, tax his wage,
Tax his bed in which he lays.
Tax his tractor, tax his mule,
Teach him taxes is the rule.

Tax his cow, tax his goat,
Tax his pants, tax his coat.
Tax his ties, tax his shirts,
Tax his work, tax his dirt.

Tax his chew, tax his smoke,
Teach him taxes are no joke.
Tax his car, tax his grass,
Tax the roads he must pass.

Tax his food, tax his drink,
Tax him if he tries to think.
Tax his sodas, tax his beers,
If he cries, tax his tears.

Tax his bills, tax his gas,
Tax his notes, tax his cash.
Tax him good and let him know
That after taxes, he has no dough.

If he hollers, tax him more,
Tax him until he's good and sore.
Tax his coffin, tax his grave,
Tax the sod in which he lays.

Put these words upon his tomb,
"Taxes drove me to my doom!"
And when he's gone, we won't relax,
We'll still be after the inheritance tax.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Did you watch the video? You call that resisting arrest?

I watched the video. It took four or five cops to restrain him long enough for one to cuff him. Yes it looked like he resisted arrest.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

If the autopsy showed the choke hold interrupted blood flow (for even 8 seconds) then I suspect that would have been the lead statement. What is most telling is that they havent provided the autopsy report. Considering the video and the size of the individuals, I truly doubt a carotid choke hold was cinched in. But...I have reserved anything definitive because we dont know.


Why? In a grand jury the prosecuter who is an extension of the local government and law enforcment is the one presenting the case against the cop who is on the same team.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

It contributed to his death - unless you're claiming he would have had a coronary and dropped dead right there if the police didn't drag him to the ground and choke him.

Sure it contributed...however he resisted arrest. It would not be practical to give all suspects a health checkup before placing them under arrest.

And that's
what I'm missing in this case.... I want to see a jury look at that evidence and make a ruling. In this particular case, it warranted a jury reviewing what the police did and how they did it.

Not according to the grand jury. I am betting they have a lot more information available to them then we do. I would be interested in reading their report if it's released before jumping to any conclusions of guilt. One of the reasons we have grand juries is to avoid suspects being financially ruined unnecessarily...if there is nothing legally to indict him on.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

So he deserved to be choked to death? Which chokehold is against the law in NY?

According to the coroner's report, he was not choked to death.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I'd also like to restate and clarify.


This isn't a race issue, this isn't a police on black issue. The number one killer of black men age 15-35 is other black men, not disease, not accidents, etc. it's other black men. While holder and obama are running thier mouths. WHEN have they EVER adressed the most dangerous thing facing black men?

It's a national tragedy here.


Police over enforment affects us all. but injeting race into it, isn't right here.
 
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