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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

MaggieD said:
Were their actions illegal? Mr. Chokehold used a hold that is barred. Is it against the law or is it an employment rule? Based on what they did and what happened, did the cops have a reasonable expectation that he would die? Were they trying to cause him serious bodily harm? My answer to that question is no, they weren't. You?

Many people are acting as if the cops were intentionally trying to kill him -- or, at the very least, injure him. They were not. Was proper procedure for a no-warrant arrest followed? I don't think so. This was a cluster****. A man is dead who shouldn't be. Somebody(ies) should lose their jobs. Should someone go to jail for 10 years? I don't think so.
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Manslaughter sounds about right.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:
Please get back to the thread topic instead of wasting time mischaracterizing my arguments, you're just not very good at it.
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Ummm mischaracterizing them? If I'm wrong, prove it. You've done nothing but acrobatics since you joined the thread and I'm pointing it out. Don't like it? Report it to the FBI/police, maybe a federal agent could come and give me a ticket for it or something.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

beefheart said:
Is that trespassing?
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Depends upon city code, it is in Portland.

beefheart said:
Is trespassing a death penalty offense?

Do trespassers deserve illegal chokeholds?
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Silly questions that don't speak to the actual events. Not to mention, chokeholds aren't illegal.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

jmotivator said:
Again, the police intent was not to kill Eric Garner. Your ignorant "death sentence" bulls*** only hurts your already week argument.
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DUIs never intend to kill anyone either. In your view, they have the PERFECT defense.

It is 100% certain they ASSAULTED the man - the question only being if it was legal to do so.

BUT you continue to claim there is only ONE crime anyone can every commit ' manslaughter/murder." Every other criminal change and conviction of any kind against anyone should be dismissed according to you as there are NO other possible crimes anyone can commit.

It can not be proven Michael Brown was trying to kill officer Wilson when he slugged him, therefore you stance is that Michael Brown committed no crime.

BUT, then, Gardener didn't intend to kill anyone either, so therefore in your logic he had committed no crime.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Higgins86 said:
It feels like from watching the news America is ready to boil over.
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That's what the race hustlers are shooting for.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

beefheart said:
So, cops are who you call when a cop does something wrong.

Nice setup.

Keep apologizing for thugs.
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Hey, you asked the question I gave you the answer. Don't try to hide your ignorance by attacking me.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

jmotivator said:
Guess what, the GJ doesn't agree with your ignorant assessment. Deal with it.
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Guess what, the public doesn't agree with your ignorant assessment. Deal with it.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:
Yeah, those other 31 times he'd been caught for the same thing don't mean a thing. :mrgreen:
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Past arrest should have no barring on current situations. There is a reason why your Juvie record is "sealed" and being caught selling a cig for whatever amount is PEANUTS in the world of "crime".
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Hatuey said:
Still lying? Here you are:

You made the what if argument based on a scenario only you seem to control. He wasn't combative at any point so there is no reason to suggest that if he'd be healthy, he would have been. Or do you know something we don't?
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That isn't a "What if". That is a statement of why the police chose the method they did to take him down. The police didn't know that Garner had one foot in the grave so they weren't dealing with a "What If" either. They were dealing with a huge irate man.

Didn't argue that. I argued police action led to his death. :shrug:
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And the police action was in response to what? We don't have that video. If the police had justification to arrest Garner and he resisted do you still call it murder?

There are literally 4 or 5 other videos filling in the blanks of what happened. There is zero evidence he proved to be combative in whatever was omitted. There aren't reports from the police. There isn't testimony from any witness. You're essentially applying the what if argument here again. Nobody is buying it.
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Show me another video that fills in the blanks.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Misterveritis said:
Over reaction. Awesome.
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Reasonable reaction actually... but you are free to be emotionally compromised about it if you like.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

radcen said:
Everything you say is true, except the part highlighted in red. Truth be told, the accused doesn't even get the benefit of the doubt in court. On paper... in theory... but not in reality. It is, however, their best shot. Relatively speaking.
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I agree. Ideally, that is where they get it. It doesn't always happen, but given the conviction compared to arrest rate, it's pretty good odds.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

beefheart said:
Is that trespassing?

Is trespassing a death penalty offense?

Do trespassers deserve illegal chokeholds?
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If you resist arrest, do you expect to just walk away?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Hatuey said:
Ummm mischaracterizing them? If I'm wrong, prove it. You've done nothing but acrobatics since you joined the thread and I'm pointing it out. Don't like it? Report it to the FBI/police, maybe a federal agent could come and give me a ticket for it or something.
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No, I have just refused to play your what if games. WE have SOME of the facts in this case, now we're debating the facts we have. You're apparently not comfortable with that and would rather talk about other situations. Start a thread for those other situations if that's what you wish to discuss.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:
Depends upon city code, it is in Portland.



Silly questions that don't speak to the actual events. Not to mention, chokeholds aren't illegal.
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Quote the statute in Portland.

Again you are claiming anyone can run up behind anyone and put them in a chock hold - because they aren't illegal. Obviously then parents and teachers could to that to troublesome children and husband do so to their wives. Someone ticked you off? Just run up behind the person and jump on their back with a chock hold - perfectly legal according to you.

More absurd claims by the police junkies.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Texmex said:
Guess what, the public doesn't agree with your ignorant assessment. Deal with it.
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Guess what, "the public" (however you define that) doesn't have the information the GJ had so the public is, by definition, ignorant of the specifics of the case.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

apdst said:
If you resist arrest, do you expect to just walk away?
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If you have any evidence of "resisting arrest" why don't you present it?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Texmex said:
How far up your intestinal tract did you have to reach to find this piece of **** excuse?
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It's reality. I understand you support lawlessness, but let's keep the conversation in the real world.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Texmex said:
Guess what, the public doesn't agree with your ignorant assessment. Deal with it.
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Guess what, you're wrong. The GJ is made up of the public. The difference between them and the man on the street, the man on the street hasn't seen the evidence. The GJ has.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

MMC said:
The officer never said he thought his life was in danger.....he said he became fearful when between Garner and the glass window.


4.jpg



Banned Chokehold Is Used

Officer Pantaleo reaches around Mr. Garner’s neck. He holds Mr. Garner in what William J. Bratton, the police commissioner, said appeared to be a chokehold.

Legal issues : The New York City Police Department has banned the use of this particular hold, but the grand jury would only consider this to the extent that it indicated whether the officer was intentionally trying to kill Mr. Garner, acting “recklessly,” or in a “criminally negligent” manner, the legal definitions of various levels of murder and manslaughter.

Officer Pantaleo: The officer said he was attempting to use a maneuver that employs leverage to force a larger man to the ground. He said he did not intend to use a chokehold and that he learned the maneuver at the Police Academy.....snip~
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oh so now he claims that he didnt know wrapping your arm around a mans neck is a choke hold? bwahahahaha holy ****. He was simply "using the neck as leverage" and misunderstood that it happens to be a chokehold? common man... Hes going to have to lie better than that.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

jmotivator said:
Guess what, "the public" (however you define that) doesn't have the information the GJ had so the public is, by definition, ignorant of the specifics of the case.
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Just like Ferguson however, the public can make this officer's life a living hell, if they so desire. I doubt it comes to this because I imagine the Federal government will file charges and prosecute this police officer.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

jmotivator said:
Guess what, "the public" (however you define that) doesn't have the information the GJ had so the public is, by definition, ignorant of the specifics of the case.
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Guess what, the grand jury was picked by the same authority that picked the police that is the same authority and institution of the prosecutor and the grand jury only heard what the prosecutor wanted the same-team grand jury to hear about the same-team police officers.

Who represented Gardener to the grand jury? NO ONE.

In fact, the public has MORE access to information than the grand jury did, because there was no prosecutor's filter and censorship.

But don't let reality get in your way of worship of police and government and your hatred of citizen's rights.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

austrianecon said:
Past arrest should have no barring on current situations. There is a reason why your Juvie record is "sealed" and being caught selling a cig for whatever amount is PEANUTS in the world of "crime".
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You're wrong. We're not talking about juvie records here. The guy was an adult criminal. And pattern of of crimes, repeat offences, are almost always germane.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

jmotivator said:
Ummm... chances are the man could tell she was a woman before beating them. Sorry, but it is a simple truth that when subduing people you use an entirely different level of force for a 6'3" 360LB man than you do a 5'0" 120LB woman... or a 6' 200LB man, for that matter.
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This would only be relevant if the victim tried to hurt the cops. Just because someone is huge doesnt mean you can use lethal moves on them. Being fat doesnt give you the right to use a lethal move on someone. They have to be posing a threat to you, you know... trying to hurt you and you fear for your life.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:
Guess what, you're wrong. The GJ is made up of the public. The difference between them and the man on the street, the man on the street hasn't seen the evidence. The GJ has.
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This cop has to live with the public, he can't hide out in the Grand Jury room. Karma can be a bitch!
 
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