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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Oh, but I am sure that you raised phony outrage about Michelle Obama and school lunches...and taxes on soda.

Because you really care about people's health don't you?

You are absolutely ridiculous. Saying someone's health issues are caused by bad diet choices IS NOT an endorsement of Government Nanny State eating regulations. Mr. Gradener should be allowed to eat all the unhealthy crap he wants, but he also lived, and died with the consequences.

How would you feel if an inmate in a jail, awaiting trial who was diabetic and wasn't given insulin died because of that?

Deborah Braillard Lawsuit: Family Of Deceased Inmate Wins $3.25 Million From Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Department

I think the court ruled correctly. Are you now going to try and equate the denial of insulin for several days with a 13 second choke hold? Please do, I haven't laughed enough today.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Didn't the breaking up of a fight narrative come from his friend that filmed the video as part of his commentary on the video? There is no video showing a fight. Are you absolutely sure that it even happened? Like how accurate was "hands up" "don't shoot"? According to what I read, Garner had just got busted by an undercover cop, who may have had video/audio of Garner showing his guilt to warrant an arrest and called for uniform police officers to make the arrest for the same thing he was out on bail for awaiting trial, along with other multiple charges. After all he was a very big man. If that were the case, the Grand Jury would have been informed of it.

Look I am not going to condone the chokehold. The officer was wrong in not following NYPD protocol. But did it measure up to what he was being accused? The Grand Jury after weighing all the evidence said no.

Uh, "what you read" isn't even close to accurate.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

It was uncalled for and negligent, and the officer should be charged accordingly.

Cops shouldn't have a different set of laws....that is not the kind of country we want to have....

How would you have handled it? Be specific.

What different laws?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

But they're right.....the police are targeting the poor because they're the ones that can't afford to pay the luxury tax on cigarettes in NY...or the jay walking tax in Ferguson and end up becoming felons and dependent on the system.

No, the police aren't targeting them. Big government New York is, if anyone.

Local store owners complained about Gardner, and the police responded. That's not targeting. That's serving the local businesses who Gardner was affecting by selling cigarettes illegally in competition with them.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

So say for example, an off duty cop who hasn't identified himself decides to place somebody under arrest without informing them of the fact. That person decides that they're being attacked, pulls out a gun and shoot the cop, is the person guilty of murder or self defense?

What you're essentially arguing is that person X in cop uniform could come and put handcuffs on you, and you'd allow it... because they don't have to inform you as to what is happening or the reason why you're being placed in handcuffs....

That's kinda.... I dunno... devoid of connection with the real world.

Depends on circumstances. In the case you described, likely wouldn't go over, and cop gets into trouble. This case though is very different. The guy knew he was being placed under arrest and that these guys were cops.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

That's not what I asked you. I asked you to show us where he said cops were there to harass black people.



Ummmm... he said black men didn't trust the police. That is a fact. However, it doesn't show he said cops are there to harass black people.



Ummm... yes, that's a fact.

It seems you can't show us where he said cops are there to harass black men. Instead, he described why it is minorities don't trust law enforcement and is due to the fact that there are demonstrable disparities in the treatment of racial groups when it comes to law enforcement and treatment by the law. That's not the same as saying cops are there to harass black people. That's your claim about what he said and so far you haven't substantiated it yet.
Do you understand what paraphrase means? Obama's own words on numerous occasion implied what I stated.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Please show in what actions lead to the arrest. Or are you simply talking out of your ass.

Have the threads been merged yet? What you're asking for is in the original thread on this topic. The video is only a small slice of what happened and doesn't show what got him arrested. He's been done 31 times previously for selling illegal merchandise (cigs). An undercover cop approached him for number 32 and he recognized him as a cop. He decided he had had enough of getting arrested and told them he was going to resist. The cops moved in and then the video begins.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Next time don't quote the New York Times for information about the legality or illegality of detention by a police officer:

Here's the New York State statute:



Article 140 Criminal Procedure Law - Arrest Without Warrant
So cops can touch you whenever they want and if you "resist" then that gives them precedence to arrest with force? According to the wording of that law a cop can come up to you and rub your face sensually. And if you physically flinch or move back he suddenly gets a free pass from the whole "arresting thing" and he can now assault you legally?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Do you understand what paraphrase means? Obama's own words on numerous occasion implied what I stated.

No, no they did not. You have given us nothing that supports your "paraphrasing."
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Are you going to post anything even remotely germane to this specific incident?

Do you answer people that post up to you.....is that to big of a ****in clue for ya?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Do you answer people that post up to you.....is that to big of a ****in clue for ya?

English, please.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Do you understand what paraphrase means? Obama's own words on numerous occasion implied what I stated.

... Yes, I understand what it means. However, by stating the facts that A) blacks are distrustful of police and B) this is due to factual discrepancies in sentencing (which go by race) is not paraphrasing: cops are there to harass black people. I'll give you one more shot to be honest what he said and post something even remotely consistent with what you claimed he alluded to.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

So cops can touch you whenever they want and if you "resist" then that gives them precedence to arrest with force? According to the wording of that law a cop can come up to you and rub your face sensually. And if you physically flinch or move back he suddenly gets a free pass from the whole "arresting thing" and he can now assault you legally?

No. He would also have to justify his actions. Explain how you justify caressing a person and what that would have to do with an arrest. The cop would be in trouble, and rightfully subject to charges. It is all about the circumstances.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You are having a serious problem with your positive and negative tags. It's hard to gather what you are saying.

But no, a 13 second choke hold can't be considered lethal. As I said before, the only way a 13 second choke can be considered lethal is if it crushed the windpipe in the process making it impossible to breathe even when the neck isn't compressed. The coroner report showed no signs of damage to the windpipe or vertebrae of the neck so the choke hold was about as "lethal" as holding your breath for 13 seconds.

Maybe Garner was accidently "Burked" by the police?

"Burking" was (and on rare occasions still is) a method used by English criminals to kill somebody, with out leaving any injuries on the victim's body. In addition, even experienced coroners have difficulty establishing the true cause of death- it often looks like a heart attack.

Basically, the persons air supply is cut off (choke hold) and then somebody else sits on his chest, and thus compresses it. Evidently, a person is poor physical condition like Garner does not need to be "Burked" very long to kill him.

As a side note, this casino heir (and heroin addict- short "Burking" time, no defensive marks from a long struggle) was murdered by the technique Articles about Ted Binion - Los Angeles Times It took the coroner along time to figure out what happened.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Depends on circumstances. In the case you described, likely wouldn't go over, and cop gets into trouble. This case though is very different. The guy knew he was being placed under arrest and that these guys were cops.

Ummm... he knew was being placed under arrest when he wasn't informed of it? Why isn't it possible he defended himself from what he saw as an unlawful assault? Again, that's the glaring hole in your argument that cops don't have to inform people of their arrests.... What is to stop a civilian from considering a cop's approach as an incoming assault and defending themselves accordingly?
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Did you see anything that shows the cop was purposely and with deliberate intent, trying to kill Garner?

No like I said most that resist don't die.....but many don't like their hands behind their backs.....and they will tell the cops they are having trouble breathing. That's without a cop even holding them or touching them. Just sitting there on a sidewalk or in the back of the squad.

Hard to believe.....huh?

The video was kind of blurry, but Gardner never seemed to close his fists or take a swing in self defense the entire time, not even while he was being taken down or struggling for his last breath. He was a big man, why didn't he fight back? I can only think he might have been more afraid of getting shot full of holes than pummeled.

Something is amiss when %99.999(?) of all GJ cases get an indictment but the one that has video evidence clearly showing an illegal choke hold resulting in death and witnessed by millions doesn't??? Yes, it's very hard to believe.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

English, please.

Oh did you have trouble with that English.....please inform us with your lack of English education and your confusion as to which which English word or words caused the grey matter to harden and not act like a sponge.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Pretty sure if the man hadnt resisted the police doing their job, he would be alive today.

So...when that guy gets pulled over for suspicion of DUI and doesnt want to comply with officers, you think the officers should just say, meh...**** it...OK...carry on?

He wasn't pulled over for DUI, was he?:roll:

Would it be fair to say that it is your opinion those who fought in the American Revolutionary War were perfectly evil and should have been killed for "resisting?"
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

There was no way for police officers to know that an morbidly obese older man was not physically fit enough to be tackled by multiple men, chocked and his head pressed into the concrete - and his saying he couldn't breathe certainly could be considered merely a tactical lie by the man hoping to make a counter attack. (that's a sneering statement).

What is MOST important is his 6 children and grandchildren are explained how evil and stupid their father was and why he had to die, which really their father deciding to commit suicide by cop.

Would it fair to estimate his child and his wife will hate all police officers down to the marrow of their bones for the rest of their lives?

This shouldn't have happened. Murder? No. Off the charts? Absolutely.

However, there is the police union, so even discipline strictly prohibited.

The man's mistake - if he was selling one cigarette at a time where they are taxed to the point to being only a rich man's luxury in NYC - was he tried to earn a living. Really, he should have been collecting disability and staying home - unless out protesting for more benefits.



Under the law it is called "taken as found". Any condition, disease, substances ingested are irrelevant.

In the end it is this: The police officer made physical contact and the man died. He would not have died, according to the coroner, has the officer not done what he did.

That in most areas is homicide, death at the hands of another person or persons.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

So cops can touch you whenever they want and if you "resist" then that gives them precedence to arrest with force? According to the wording of that law a cop can come up to you and rub your face sensually. And if you physically flinch or move back he suddenly gets a free pass from the whole "arresting thing" and he can now assault you legally?

There's really no need to go there with all the imagined scenarios. That's not what happened here. He announced his intent to resist arrest before they even touched him. the 32cd time being arrested was just too much for him.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Ummm... he knew was being placed under arrest when he wasn't informed of it? Why isn't it possible he defended himself from what he saw as an unlawful assault? Again, that's the glaring hole in your argument that cops don't have to inform people of their arrests.... What is to stop a civilian from considering a cop's approach as an incoming assault and defending themselves accordingly?

His actions and words showed that he believed he was being placed under arrest, by the police, even if he didn't believe he should have been. There is no question there, no ambiguity or question about what is happening, especially during the actual resistance.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Maybe Garner was accidently "Burked" by the police?

"Burking" was (and on rare occasions still is) a method used by English criminals to kill somebody with out leaving any injuries on the victim's body. In addition, even experienced coroners have difficulty establishing the true cause of death- it often looks like a heart attack.

Basically, the persons air supply is cut off (choke hold) and then somebody else sits on his chest, and thus compresses it. Evidently, a person is poor physical condition like Garner does not need to be "Burked" very long to kill him.

As a side note, this casino heir (and heroin addict- short "Burking" time, no marks from long struggle) was murdered by the technique Articles about Ted Binion - Los Angeles Times It took the coroner along time to figure out what happened.

You should repeat this excellent message now and then.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Yes it can. If you perform 100% bloodflow restriction an average man could die in 2 seconds of choking if he goes into shock. Now add in the fact that this guy had much more mass and his circulatory system is naturally more taxed. Plus the stress from being ambushed in a unlawful arrest... That officer was really crankin on his neck hard too and digging into it. The officer wanted to dominate him and it cost the man his life.

Oh bulls***. First off, Gardener didn't die of shock. Second, anyone who would go in to fatal circulatory shock after a 2 second choke would likely not be standing on a street corner. The amount of cellular oxygen deprivation needed as a prerequisite to start a cascading lethal shock to the system after only 2 seconds of chocking would need to be so pervasive that the person would be non-functional even before the choking.
 
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