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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

It is at this point I'd like to point out that the black cop who killed the white young man in Utah also got away without any charges.

So before you make it a racial thing, no, it isn't.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

VanceMack said:
hom·i·cide
ˈhäməˌsīd/Submit
nounNORTH AMERICAN
the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder.
"he was charged with homicide"
synonyms: murder, killing, slaughter, butchery, massacre; More
the police department that deals with murders.
noun: Homicide
"a detective from Homicide"
dated
a murderer.
https://www.google.com/#q=Homicide

The legal distinction was immediately brought up by the police chief. The distinction needs to be made. Ruling the death a 'homicide' does not equal the cop committed a homicide.
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Lmao, as expected, you honestly brought up a dictionary definition as a counter to the legal definition. The cops committed a homicide as per the fact that the autopsy ruled it such. In other words, their actions led to his death. That you're still trying to avoid this is f'n laughable.

The video is quite clear. The 'choke' was applied for approximately 8 seconds while the individual was taken to the ground. Once he was on the ground (a place he did not need to be had he not decided he was not going to be arrested) the same officer that applied the hold to take him down released it and moved to his shoulders holding his head down. He did not die of being choked to death. The coroners report listed NUMEROUS contributing causes.
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Do you understand what homicide means? Yes or no? I'll give you a clue. In every definition (legal or common), homicide means the actions of one person led to the death of another. That you're still trying to argue that this doesn't mean the actions of the police killed this man is just beyond all logic.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Rainman05 said:
It is at this point I'd like to point out that the black cop who killed the white young man in Utah also got away without any charges.

So before you make it a racial thing, no, it isn't.
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It is a racial thing. Many blacks want a free pass to do whatever.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Rainman05 said:
It is at this point I'd like to point out that the black cop who killed the white young man in Utah also got away without any charges.

So before you make it a racial thing, no, it isn't.
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Utah has a young black male shortage. :lol:
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Hatuey said:
Ah, so what you're saying is that if Eric Garner had shown the police his gun and intentions to use it if police used force, you would have supported him? Your consistent inconsistency is showing.
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Garner was not on his property, looked to me like he was on the sidewalk.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

VanceMack said:
:lamo

OK then.
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I think it's pretty sad how fast you pull that card and how easy you find it to justify assault. Personally, I struggle with agreeing with the existence of police because they have an exception to pretty much every rule when it comes to human interaction.

Assault? Fine if the person won't follow your orders.
Invading the body of your fellow man? Fine if you think they have drugs.
Destroying their property? Fine if you think they have drugs.
Taking their blood? Fine if you think they did drugs.

I could on of course, but you get the point.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CRUE CAB said:
It is a racial thing. Many blacks want a free pass to do whatever.
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I'm sure you have sources to back up that comment. If not, I'm going to call it racist.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CMPancake said:
I'm not debating that Garner was killed by the choke, what I am saying is that the choke itself was clearly meant to be just that, a choke. Garner's life was clearly in danger by this choke. The Officer in question intended to choke Eric Garner, and choking as we all know can be lethal. Plain and simple.
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Maybe you should clarify your double negative in the post I responded to.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CRUE CAB said:
Garner was not on his property, looked to me like he was on the sidewalk.
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Ah, so being on your property means you get to resist lawful police action and avoid accountability? Good stuff CRUE CAB. I'm enjoying jump through circles to justify your inconsistency.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Henrin said:
I'm sure you have sources to back up that comment. If not, I'm going to call it racist.
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I'm just going to call it stupid.

At the time of the incident, there is no indication that Garner was actively engaging in the heinous capital crime of selling loose cigarettes, as so many of the defenders of the cops here (not you, Henrin) have claimed.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Hatuey said:
Lmao, as expected, you honestly brought up a dictionary definition as a counter to the legal definition. The cops committed a homicide as per the fact that the autopsy ruled it such. In other words, their actions led to his death. That you're still trying to avoid this is f'n laughable.



Do you understand what homicide means? Yes or no? I'll give you a clue. In every definition (legal or common), homicide means the actions of one person led to the death of another. That you're still trying to argue that this doesn't mean the actions of the police killed this man is just beyond all logic.
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Homicide has several meanings. As long as the very clear distinction is made that the coroner is not stating the officer committed a homicide but that Garner died as the result of law enforcement officials attempting to arrest a man who while resisting arrest, had contributing helath factors that resulted in his death...fine...call it a 'homicide' all you want.

"OCME spokeswoman Julie Bolcer said Friday that Garner, a 43-year-old father of six, died from "compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police."

His weight -- Garner weighed more than 300 pounds -- and pre-existing medical conditions -- acute and chronic bronchial asthma and hypertensive cardiovascular disease -- also contributed to Garner's death, the OCME's report states.

Garner died after police attempted to place him under arrest on suspicion of selling untaxed cigarettes on Victory Boulevard and Bay Street in Tompkinsville."

Without having seen the autopsy report and official cause of death (YOU have that info, right?) I can only assume that the grand jury looked at the 'big' picture in determining not to indict.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

ttwtt78640 said:
I agree but the first "illegal" act was resisting arrest (well actually it was selling "loose" cigarettes to an undercover officer) so if we are playing the which came first game the blame still originates with the perp and not the officers trying to arrest him.
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I agree - my point is that I'd rather have a court and a jury, hearing all evidence, determine if they believe the form of arrest was warranted in this case and if not then the officer's contribution to the eventual death would be penalized accordingly. Such a jury would be able to weigh both sides of the argument, in public view, rather than in secret, and it would better serve justice in the eyes of the community.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Hatuey said:
Ah, so being on your property means you get to resist lawful police action and avoid accountability? Good stuff CRUE CAB. I'm enjoying jump through circles to justify your inconsistency.
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Not inconsistent at all. No one was trying to arrest anyone at Bundy.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CRUE CAB said:
Police were called. He was there and part of some melee or fight. Was told to stand down, turn around, and be detained until it was figured out who the bad guys were.
He got loud and agitated. Bad idea.
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Do you always support a police state or only when the cops are attacking minorities for petty offenses?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CanadaJohn said:
I agree - my point is that I'd rather have a court and a jury, hearing all evidence, determine if they believe the form of arrest was warranted in this case and if not then the officer's contribution to the eventual death would be penalized accordingly. Such a jury would be able to weigh both sides of the argument, in public view, rather than in secret, and it would better serve justice in the eyes of the community.
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That's an excellent point, actually. "Perception is reality."
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

VanceMack said:
Do you realize that his death was not and in fact COULD not be a 'homicide' as there has been no jury ruling or court finding that the officer was guilty of a deliberate and unlawful killing of an individual? DO you realize the autopsy described NUMEROUS contributing factors including weight, asthma, apnea, cardiac, etc?
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Just because someone has health problems does not mean that you can kill them without respite. Smothering somebody who's in critical condition in a hospital is still murder.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CRUE CAB said:
Then don't expect for them to treat you with kid gloves.
No speak, fine. Cuffed until we find out who called and why and if you are part of the issue. Still wont talk, you are obstructing. To jail you go.
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This BS smells worse than your usual.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

jmotivator said:
Maybe you should clarify your double negative in the post I responded to.
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You said the Officer had no way of knowing the force he used would be lethal. You made the intellectually dishonest claim that the Officer didn't know that the force he used (which was choking) could be lethal.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CRUE CAB said:
Not a choke hold. One frame of vid is not proof of a choke hold. But hey, you try the job on for size and see how your attitude changes about the poor misunderstood people.
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Are you kidding, that was an attempt at the classic no gi "lapel choke", right up and too (which is absolute proof) the palm to palm grip the cop is using which is used in liu of a gi lapel to hook onto..

untrained types interlock thier fingers by default, palm to palm grip is a trained behavior.

I've done a much harder jobs than cops dealing with people far more hostile to me than a guy selling loosies. If being mean to you hurts your feelings, don't be a cop.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

VanceMack said:
Homicide has several meanings.
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Still trying? Homicide means the death of one person was caused by another in every definition posted. I wanted you to post that fact which is why I let you think that I was only relying on the legal definition. So with that said, what homicide means is that the police caused his death. You spent 2+ pages trying to argue that this guy's fatness and illness was to blame. If that had been the case, the coroner's report wouldn't have pointed out his death was a homicide. It also doesn't mean he died from just an asthma attack and being fat. What it does is place those factors as secondary to the fact that police action caused his death. Do you have anything you'd like to add?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Nilly said:
Just because someone has health problems does not mean that you can kill them without respite. Are you suggesting that smothering somebody who's in critical condition in a hospital is not murder?
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My issue is why wasn't he given assistance on the sidewalk? Aren't police and especially EMS trained to give CPR and other first aid. Didn't happen here.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Henrin said:
I think it's pretty sad how fast you pull that card and easy you find it to justify assault. Personally, I struggle with agreeing with the existence of police because they have an exception to pretty much every rule when it comes to human interaction.

Assault? Fine if the person won't follow your orders.
Invading the body of your fellow man? Fine if you think they have drugs.
Destroying their property? Fine if you think they have drugs.
Taking their blood? Fine if you think they did drugs.

I could on of course, but you get the point.
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I think its laughable you call this case an 'assault'. So see? We both have cause to :lamo

The police were attempting to arrest the man. He decided he wasnt going to be arrested. They arrested him. They didnt beat him with hose. They didnt taze him. They took him to the ground, held him in place while they cuffed him. Police are going to do that when you decide to resist arrest. Thats just a reality. The remedy...dont resist arrest. Fight charges in court. Hell...people do it all the time.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CRUE CAB said:
Not inconsistent at all. No one was trying to arrest anyone at Bundy.
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You're right, a government agency was conducting a legal action and you stood against it because accountability shouldn't be expected of someone claiming nonsensical ancestral rights. Again, more inconsistency.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Kobie said:
It's readily apparent that CRUE CAB has never watched the full video of the incident.
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It's obvious that Crew Cab makes his mind up according to the skin color and possible political affiliation of the person in question.
 
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