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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Executing everyone who's ever violated a law would also reduce crime. Is that acceptable as well? What's that old saying about ends justifying the means.

And stop and frisk may not have had anything to do with it considering that

a) crime was dropping nationwide at the time and,
b) stop and frisk was largely an ineffective way of catching people - less than 10% of those stops ended in an arrest.

Hyperbole.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

What was he charged with except not accepting state tyranny by allowing himself to be submissive to an officer who had NO reason to hassle him?

Do you suggest we, as citizens of the United States, to simply do as we're told whenever an officer gives us an order?
No reason? Really?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

The full video has been posted in this thread, numerous times.

You know the old bit of wisdom.... there are none so blind as they who will not see.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

What... behavior....!?!?! Selling bootleg cigarettes? Good grief, you painted Clive Bundy's case as a struggle for his ancestral rights when what the case was about was unpaid millions in taxes. Now you're sitting here telling us people need to be held accountable? Are you trying to make so many bull**** arguments people just write your opinion off?

Two different issues.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

As stated before, it was and improper choke hold. Watch the video, his cries are muffled at best, it isn't until he manages to get the hold loosened is he able to shout louder. (His problem breathing would have been aggravated by his weight, and asthma.)
Then don't be a fat ass and try to fight the cops. On top of being a criminal.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Looking at the video many time I have one question; why did the criminal refuse to cooperate with the police? Caught red handed he lifts his arms saying waddup dudes? then he places both hands on his hips sending another message of defiance. Resist the cops and you will pay.

What was he caught red handed doing?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

You know the old bit of wisdom.... there are none so blind as they who will not see.

No, just have no sympathy for him.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Stop and frisk. NY had it for years. Lowered crime. You tell me.

Stop and frisk needs probable cause for a crime being committed. Refusing to speak with police is not probable cause.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

This is a textbook example of the strawman argument. He wasn't killed for selling loose cigarettes. Stop intentionally spreading misinformation. He was accosted in the manner he was, allegedly, for resisting arrest.

That being said, in this instance, I don't buy that either, but the notion that he was killed for selling loose cigarettes is irresponsible hyperbole.

He was confronted by five cops and wrestled to the ground for the crime of selling untaxed cigarettes. He was held in a chokehold that damaged his windpipe and contributed to his death. The medical examiner ruled the death a "homicide."

The death may not have been intentional, but the facts show that he was, indeed, killed for selling loose cigarettes.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Stop and frisk needs probable cause for a crime being committed. Refusing to speak with police is not probable cause.
Yes it is.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

"And that is the whole purpose of the once revered US Constitution. If you believe what you wrote then get your state to demand an Article V convention of states to propose amendments."

Now carefully read the second sentence. Now go do it.

Why? The constitution already restricts.government and defines its purpose. The government is limited. If they're already not listening to the Constitution, what would an amendment do? We already have restrictions and laws, they merely need to be adhered to.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

He was confronted by five cops and wrestled to the ground for the crime of selling untaxed cigarettes. He was held in a chokehold that damaged his windpipe and contributed to his death. The medical examiner ruled the death a "homicide."

The death may not have been intentional, but the facts show that he was, indeed, killed for selling loose cigarettes.

That wasn't even the reason he was initially confronted.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I've been thinking about this event. What a tragedy. I mean, think about a guy who's trying to earn some (what amounts to) spare change selling loosies on the streets of New York. And he's dead now. IMO, it has to do with training. De-escalation is a cop's friend.

So, what else might the cops have done with this guy?

"Hey, man, we've had a couple of complaints from business owners nearby. You're either going to have to move on? Or we're going to have to arrest you. Your choice. Me? I don't want to do the paperwork. Keep moving." Frankly, that could've been done from out-the-window of a squad car. Circle a 4-block area and come back to make sure he's gone.

If he doesn't leave, then we're back to a confrontation. I like to think/hope that we all agree with the rule of law in this country. But what kind of confrontation? I'd say a taser, not a 5-guy pile-on. That should probably be policy. I envision this:

"You're under arrest (for xxxxx). So here's what's going to happen. I'm going to cuff you and take you down to the station. If you resist, that officer over there is going to taze you, and, on top of this misdemeanor charge, you're going to jail for resisting arrest." (Other officer standing with tazer in hand.)

Too fat to get tazed? Too bad. Too old to get tazed? Too bad. There simply MUST be procedures that cops are required to follow before they can do a pile-on. We have the technology. Body cameras, tasers, etc. It's time we learned how to use them all.

It's also too bad the DA decided a grand jury was appropriate. This was a wrongful (albeit accidental) death. "I can't breath - I can't breath - I can't breath" means the guy was subdued. His lying on his stomach with weight on his back from the grappling officers? The consequence of that (his death) can be easily predicted. The officers should have been charged. No grand jury required.




My new favorite tactic is the "stop resisting" shouting while the guy squirms in pain from the tazer or other particular causing the detainee massive pain. /sarcasm
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Not how I saw it. I just saw it again. He was loud, agitated, and resisting. Sorry, that will get you hooked up every time.


If that was "Agitated" those cops need to take up knitting, police work is not for them. Being mad at harrassment is not being "Aggressive" and his only "resisting" began when that dude put the choke in.


It is not illegal to tell a cop to go **** himself.

and if a cop "hooks you up" for doing so, he should lose his job.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Two different issues.

Sure they are,

In one you defended a man resisting lawful government action.
In the other, you supported police harming an unarmed civilian for selling untaxed cigarettes.

Those are two different issues in which your inconsistent positions on accountability are more than obvious. :)
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Don't matter, he was a criminal. You look a person up in the system and all it shows is arrests. What for and when.



arrests or convictions?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Then don't be a fat ass and try to fight the cops. On top of being a criminal.

You and I are clearly watched a different video because Garner didn't fight the cops. He refused to speak with the police, that's all he did in this video and witness reports.

Yes it is.

No. It isn't, you have a constitutional to not speak to the Police. Refusing to speak to the Police is not probable cause.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

If it's so obvious, tell us.
Police were called. He was there and part of some melee or fight. Was told to stand down, turn around, and be detained until it was figured out who the bad guys were.
He got loud and agitated. Bad idea.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Hyperbole.

Not in the least. You've suggested that stop and frisk is justified because it's effective - putting aside that there's really no evidence of that for the moment. Whether or not a technique is effective is the only the only, or even the most important, concern.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

This is a textbook example of the strawman argument. He wasn't killed for selling loose cigarettes. Stop intentionally spreading misinformation. He was accosted in the manner he was, allegedly, for resisting arrest.

That being said, in this instance, I don't buy that either, but the notion that he was killed for selling loose cigarettes is irresponsible hyperbole.



Then why pray tell were they all on about the cigarettes? what was the "Reasonable suspicion" and of what "crime"?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You and I are clearly watched a different video because Garner didn't fight the cops. He refused to speak with the police, that's all he did in this video and witness reports.



No. It isn't, you have a constitutional to not speak to the Police. Refusing to speak to the Police is not probable cause.
Then don't expect for them to treat you with kid gloves.
No speak, fine. Cuffed until we find out who called and why and if you are part of the issue. Still wont talk, you are obstructing. To jail you go.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

What... behavior....!?!?! Selling bootleg cigarettes? Good grief, you painted Clive Bundy's case as a struggle for his ancestral rights when what the case was about was unpaid millions in taxes. Now you're sitting here telling us people need to be held accountable? Are you trying to make so many bull**** arguments people just write your opinion off?

Given their highly subjective standards, Cliven Bundy should have been boot stomped to death years ago.

29 cent tax versus millions of dollars owed to the american public....


Hypocrisy...they are soaking in it.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Police were called. He was there and part of some melee or fight. Was told to stand down, turn around, and be detained until it was figured out who the bad guys were.
He got loud and agitated. Bad idea.

You are now officially lying about what happened. The police approached him about cigarettes. Holy ****, it's in the video and has been admitted to by the police.
 
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