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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Gaius46 said:
After several minutes yes. For the short period of time involved here no. The chokehold violates NYPD regulations and it can be seen as excessive but to suggest on the basis of that alone that the officer should have known that
the amount of force being applied would be lethal is a real stretch.
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Does placing force around the neck compromise breathing?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CMPancake said:
The Police Commish in NYC begs to differ.



I intend on it actually.

I get the bias the majority of people have cops. I get it, I live in a family full of cops, my father himself was wrongly accused of misusing his power and spent years fighting the case (a case he thankfully won.) And I know once in the force I'll be faced with that same bias, but I won't stand here and act like the Police officers in question stood here and were merely doing their jobs. They were the ones who made the situation violent, and as a result someone died. If we don't hold the Police accountable for their actions, then who will?
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Yea, god forbid we hold citizens accountable for their behavior.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CRUE CAB said:
Yea, god forbid we hold citizens accountable for their behavior.
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So do you believe the Police should be able to hold, detain, and physically restrain citizens with impunity? Do you really trust that kind of power in the hands of public servants?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CRUE CAB said:
Not how I saw it. I just saw it again. He was loud, agitated, and resisting. Sorry, that will get you hooked up every time.
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I agree, though his resisting was token at best. Cops generally seem to have a very low threshold for what constitutes resisting.

He violated department policy in at least a couple of ways. Frankly I hope he spends the rest of his life selling hotdogs.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Kobie said:
The full video has been posted in this thread, numerous times.
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And you know exactly how much force being used? You notice he was still yelling. Try that while being choked.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Gaius46 said:
I agree, though his resisting was token at best. Cops generally seem to have a very low threshold for what constitutes resisting.

He violated department policy in at least a couple of ways. Frankly I hope he spends the rest of his life selling hotdogs.
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People are weak now a days. They think they are entitled to "special" treatment. Even after 30 arrests.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CMPancake said:
Does placing force around the neck compromise breathing?
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Depends on where and how it's applied. And compromising breathing doesn't necessarily have to result in death. Can it? Sure it can. But I think to assume that that was the cops intent or to suggest that the cop should have known that he could've killed the guy on the basis of that alone is wrong.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CMPancake said:
So do you believe the Police should be able to hold, detain, and physically restrain citizens with impunity? Do you really trust that kind of power in the hands of public servants?
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Stop and frisk. NY had it for years. Lowered crime. You tell me.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CRUE CAB said:
He was talking the whole time. Have someone choke you out, then talk.
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As stated before, it was and improper choke hold. Watch the video, his cries are muffled at best, it isn't until he manages to get the hold loosened is he able to shout louder. (His problem breathing would have been aggravated by his weight, and asthma.)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

ReverendHellh0und said:
Was it arrest or detainment.


I agree with your sentiment, that nor every case is abuse. brown wasn't, this was.
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It was 'arrest' the moment he decided he wasnt going to be arrested OR detained.

Look...the facts are what they are. The police arrested him. He resisted. They took him down and cuffed him. He died because he was morbidly obese and had associated health concerns, not because he was arrested and not because he was choked to death. Whether people agree the charges were substantiated or not is really not relevant. Lots of people are pulled over and dont agree with the ticket they are given and they fight and win. Hell...I've won ticket challenges in court. There is a right way and wrong way to do it. One way possibly results in a win. The other way is almost certain to end as a loss...even if the charges are unfounded.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CRUE CAB said:
People are weak now a days. They think they are entitled to "special" treatment. Even after 30 arrests.
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What special treatment was he looking for? By all accounts he wasn't breaking any laws and was tired of being hassled. Should he have just shut up and complied? Absolutely. On the other hand the cops absolutely could've handled it much better.

And his 30 priors were all low level BS. The dude was not a drug kingpin. Just a schmuck trying to earn a couple of extra bucks at the margins for what's essentially a victimless crime.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

As I understand it, the police were enforcing the civil tax law because these were untaxed cigarettes he was selling. I'm guessing NYC would have saved a lot of money by just letting him sell his cigarettes.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Gaius46 said:
Depends on where and how it's applied. And compromising breathing doesn't necessarily have to result in death. Can it? Sure it can.
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Then yes, choking someone is lethal.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
So for you then it is Too Big To Fail and Too Fat to Be Arrested.

Understood.

Place your anger in the tax revolt. Join your local TEA Party and begin to do some good where you live.
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No one with any sense wants to join the Tea-baggers.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CMPancake said:
Then yes, choking someone is lethal.
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If you want to define it as lethal in all instances because it can be lethal in some then yes. But then so would punching someone in the face. Or shoving someone.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

apdst said:
He wasn't killed intentionally. i.e. he wasn't executed
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It was uncalled for and negligent, and the officer should be charged accordingly.

Cops shouldn't have a different set of laws....that is not the kind of country we want to have....
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

TheDemSocialist said:
Yup justifies killing someone by choking them to death, by using a banned chokehold on someone.
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What part about resisting arrest don't you get.....the chokehold is not illegal.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CRUE CAB said:
Yea, god forbid we hold citizens accountable for their behavior.
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What... behavior....!?!?! Selling bootleg cigarettes? Good grief, you painted Clive Bundy's case as a struggle for his ancestral rights when what the case was about was unpaid millions in taxes. Now you're sitting here telling us people need to be held accountable? Are you trying to make so many bull**** arguments people just write your opinion off?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Amadeus said:
When the cops tackle and choke an unarmed black man for not paying 5 cent taxes on his cigarette singles, that form of government tyranny is okay for some conservatives.
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That's utterly asinine even for your posting standards.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CRUE CAB said:
Yea, god forbid we hold citizens accountable for their behavior.
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What was he charged with except not accepting state tyranny by allowing himself to be submissive to an officer who had NO reason to hassle him?

Do you suggest we, as citizens of the United States, to simply do as we're told whenever an officer gives us an order?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

radcen said:
This is a textbook example of the strawman argument. He wasn't killed for selling loose cigarettes. Stop intentionally spreading misinformation. He was accosted in the manner he was, allegedly, for resisting arrest.

That being said, in this instance, I don't buy that either, but the notion that he was killed for selling loose cigarettes is irresponsible hyperbole.
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No - its an accurate description of the events.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CRUE CAB said:
Stop and frisk. NY had it for years. Lowered crime. You tell me.
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Executing everyone who's ever violated a law would also reduce crime. Is that acceptable as well? What's that old saying about ends justifying the means.

And stop and frisk may not have had anything to do with it considering that

a) crime was dropping nationwide at the time and,
b) stop and frisk was largely an ineffective way of catching people - less than 10% of those stops ended in an arrest.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Looking at the video many time I have one question; why did the criminal refuse to cooperate with the police? Caught red handed he lifts his arms saying waddup dudes? then he places both hands on his hips sending another message of defiance. Resist the cops and you will pay.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

If only Eric Garner had decided to argue that he had a right to sell cigarettes because of ancestral rights. Maybe CRUE CAB would be defending him instead.
 
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