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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Well...no...if you let go of your histrionics you would see that the man was being arrested for suspicion of a crime had been convicted of on numerous occasions in the past. Those crimes were several of the 30 he had previously been convicted of.

Which there doesn't appear to be any evidence he was guilty of again. I guess being guilty of a crime in the past makes assault cool.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

No, that is false.

:lamo

Either you havent watched the video or are intentionally lying right now. Either way...you are still kicking your own ass. I recommend you actually view the video. See who applies the choke to bring the man to the ground and then see who is holding his head down 8 seconds after he is on the ground. This should be a lot of fun.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Which there doesn't appear to be any evidence he was guilty of again. I guess being guilty of a crime in the past makes assault cool.
How the hell would you even begin to pretend to know if there was evidence of what he was observed doing or not?

im sure those other 30 arrests and convictions were all trumped up too.

Geeeeeez...the people you throw a saddle on....
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

That is correct. If the law decides you are going to be arrested, you are going to be arrested. Resist...dont be a 'sheep'...and you will...well...you will have a shot at your frothy foamy rape fantasy that got you so worked up about. :lamo

You do realize not being submissive includes actions beyond resisting arrest, right? It just so happens that those actions many times lead to being assaulted by a police officer. :lamo
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

How the hell would you even begin to pretend to know if there was evidence of what he was observed doing or not?

im sure those other 30 arrests and convictions were all trumped up too.

Geeeeeez...the people you throw a saddle on....

Do you have any evidence he was selling cigarettes? What did they have to support their case against the man?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Did the officers even have probable cause to make an arrest?
Dont know...do you? He resisted arrest and died...remember? It didnt go to trial. What we DO know is that the officer observed what he determined to be criminal behavior (on charges similar to some of the 30 prior convictions he had).
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Do you have any evidence he was selling cigarettes?
Apparently the officer did.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You do realize not being submissive includes actions beyond resisting arrest, right? It just so happens that those actions many times lead to being assaulted by a police officer. :lamo
And when/if it happens...make sure you get it on film.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

And when/if it happens...make sure you get it on film.

Yeah, but it would lead to your buddy going to butt rape prison to be raped by your other buddies.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Dont know...do you? He resisted arrest and died...remember? It didnt go to trial. What we DO know is that the officer observed what he determined to be criminal behavior (on charges similar to some of the 30 prior convictions he had).

So because he "resisted" (I use this term EXTREMELY loosely, based on the tape; his "resistance" endangered nobody and was token at worst), that renders the question of whether the attempted arrest was justified moot?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Well then...the suspect REALLY ****ed up then, didnt he?

You define resisting arrest in a really stupid way.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

So because he "resisted" (I use this term EXTREMELY loosely, based on the tape; his "resistance" endangered nobody and was token at worst), that renders the question of whether the attempted arrest was justified moot?
Feel free to ask that question of law enforcement.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

On one last note before I go to bed, when Henrin and I are in complete agreement, hell hath officially frozen over.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

watched the video
read the reports
read many articles
read the coroner and medical reports

this should go to trial for sure

if innocents remains after the trial, fine but it not going to trial is an injustice IMO and VERY concerning

also want to add since the choke hold was illegal on video there seems to be no real care for his health (cpr etc) is even MORE reason to "AT LEAST" go to trial

I know what they decided but what opinions are here as to why this isnt even worthy of trial? based on all the above?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

As did all of the other factors listed in the coroner's report. Absent those other factors then the brief use of force would not have been fatal.

In my view, the contributing factors are relevant but they are not dismissive of the officer's role in the man's death. If a person with a heart condition is punched by another person and dies, the person throwing the punch is still guilty of his role in the death of the other person because failing the punch, the other person may not have died for years to come. It's the same principle behind if you punch someone and they lose their balance and fall, banging their head on the pavement and then suffer brain damage from the fall and die. Your punch didn't directly cause the brain damage, but you contributed to the final result and are therefore partially responsible.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I agree - it was an accident. I don't see the police trying to kill this guy purposefully - and that is why there are laws such as negligent homicide and various levels of manslaughter on the books for just such an event. I'm not looking to nail this cop - only give him his day in court and let a jury decide if he just did his job or if he did his job badly and aiding in the death of a suspect. Reasonable no?

In a way, a trial is a way for the community to comment on levels of use of force in such situations and what they find reasonable and acceptable. It provides police with oversight outside of their ranks. It's the way society passes judgement on both the law and the actions of people. It's why jury nullification is important - it tells government the law is flawed. If, during a very public trial, the jury found this officer guilty of some lesser crime contributing to the man's death, it would be instructive to other officers in such situations. Such checks on police are valuable, in my view.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I wonder why your question is ONLY about the reaction and contains no reference to the incident itself?

I posed the question because of the similarities in circumstances - black man resisting arrest, dying in the process, how a community will react - it was relevant to me based on the issue of police and race relations in various parts of the country. But I did comment on the direct circumstances of the arrest/incident in subsequent posts.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

No. I am not saying that.



In the end, and it may be a long time coming, it won't be enough. No civilization that oppressed enough of its citizens has ever ended in anything but warfare and, ultimately, revolution.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you think most citizens in our civilization think prohibiting people from selling loose cigarettes on the streets is so oppressive as to warrant a revolution, you're just delusional and part of the fringe problems today's society faces and not part of the solution.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064051343 said:
The cop who killed him could have at least taken his knee, using his complete body weight as leverage, off the man's head.

I just want to note that from the video it's not entirely clear to me that there's a "cop who killed him". Granted, there is one cop who put him in a hold, choke hold or otherwise, and wrestled him to the ground. But then, once on the ground, there were several officers on Garner's body and there was several officers "complete body weight" used as leverage to keep Garner down. Similar to "piling on" when we were kids, the guy on the bottom of a bunch of bodies is going to have a hard time breathing when his chest is compressed and he can't move and cardiac arrest is not far away. The only thing entirely clear from the video is that the choke hold brought him down.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

He wasn't selling contraband cigarettes at the time of the incident. He had numerous prior arrests/citations for that "crime," but that's not what he was doing when the cops confronted him at that moment.

Exactly. This is abundantly clear in the video.

This should be shown to every police officer as an instructional video of how NOT to handle a situation. I can see a dozen ways this could have been handled without tackling the guy to the ground and putting him in a choke hold. Being big and black should not be grounds to use excessive force.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Resisting arrest does not automatically justify lethal force.

The officers had no way of knowing that the force would be lethal.
 
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