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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

iliveonramen said:
Yeah, when I saw the video of this occurring I could see myself in that man's shoes. Not the selling of untaxed cigs, but I could see myself being mandhandled by cops and it pissing me off.
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Do you frequently resist arrest?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

gdgyva said:
so we should all be able to do "want we want to do regardless of laws?"

just another dude looking for the easy buck.....and kept getting caught

no too bright apparently
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The reply should be obvious: so lawmakers should be able to pass any laws they want, and we should just follow them?

Actually, the answer to both is "no." We should follow just laws, and not unjust ones. As to which are which: ye shall know the tree by its fruits.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

DaveFagan said:
The absolute least case in this matter should have been criminally negligient homicide. There should be riots as a result of this grand jury. It appears it is the police/gov't vs. the taxpaying citizens in this Nation.
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Why should there be riots? Ever?

Citizens reviewed the evidence and determined that there was insufficient evidence to support that there was a crime. Government agents did not decide. Citizens decided.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

ttwtt78640 said:
Just a guess, but perhaps the GJ had more to consider than just that video. ;)
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Like his 30 prior arrests ? And that he was currently out on bail over an arrest 2 months prior for selling untaxed cigarettes, driving without a license, drug possession and false personation? That it was a plain clothes officer that caught him selling untaxed cigarettes (while out on bail) not the one who put him in a chokehold to hold him down during an arrest he was resisting. (You would think after being arrested 30 previous times he would have known the routine by now). That Garner died of a massive heart attack with asthma, heart disease and obesity as contributing factors?

But to hear Obama, Eric Holder and Al Sharpton describe the guy, he is another "gentle giant". Tell you what I think. If I were a cop (white), I'd be damn afraid to arrest a black person for wrong doing for fear my life would be turned into a world of Hell for doing my job.

Having said that, the officer used an illegal move for subduing during an arrest. Chokeholds have been banned in NYC since the late 90's I believe. And from what I have read he was stripped of his badge and gun for it.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

fmw said:
....and a comment for New York lawmakers. If it is wildly profitable to go to North Carolina to buy cigarettes and then sell them on the street illegally then something is wrong with the tax law. The purpose, one would assume, is to discourage smoking. The outrageous tax won't discourage smoking. Smoking is a powerful addiction. It will only encourage the black market. Common sense should prevail.
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the high tax absolutely discourages smoking
it does not end it
but that vice/luxury tax is certainly something which serves as a disincentive to existing and prospective smokers

and just as i fill up in the next state (12 miles away) to save 30c a gallon, those in new york seek out 'discounted' cigarettes, buying them where they were not taxed so significantly (but where gas taxes are among the highest)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
Do you frequently resist arrest?
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Arresting a guy for selling loose cigarettes.....

Insanity.

6 officers to arrest him for something that should be a ticket.

Cops killed this guy...and the bad cops get away with crap like this all the time.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

ReverendHellh0und said:
Race is irrelevant in this case imo.

The choke hold is not even the issue actually


The fact that the cops end up killing a dude over selling bootleg cigarettes is what we all should be outraged over.
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The fact that he was morbidly obese is what we should be outraged over.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CanadaJohn said:
I appreciate what you're saying, but it still bothers me. This isn't a man that was physically hurting or threatening anyone, from what I can tell - he was basically committing a crime against the tax collectors. This isn't a man who was abusing or threatening the life of a police officer - the only time the officers would be threatened or subjected to bodily harm is when they enforced an arrest. As I mentioned earlier, why isn't this just the issuance of a summons and not an arrest? That's a big issue for me.
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The correct response to this senseless death is a tax revolt. He was killed while resisting arrest because he was not collecting outrageous taxes for the city.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Carleen said:
So he deserved to be choked to death? Which chokehold is against the law in NY?
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He wasn't choked to death! He died because he was too fat and out of shape to pick a fight with the cops.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Ockham said:
It contributed to his death - unless you're claiming he would have had a coronary and dropped dead right there if the police didn't drag him to the ground and choke him.

And that's what I'm missing in this case.... I want to see a jury look at that evidence and make a ruling. In this particular case, it warranted a jury reviewing what the police did and how they did it.
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The "choke hold" had nothing to do with his death. He should have been honest with himself about his health, before he picked a fight with the cops.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Henry David said:
The people that sit on this jury must be police officers.

If ever there was a case of manslaughter, this was it.
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I gotta say I'm surprised by no indictment on this one. This seemed to me definitely out of order. The guy was merely selling ciggies without tax, and although he resisted arrest, he obviously is not a healthy person (obese, breathing heavily), and put him in a chokehold, and the guy says he can't breathe. Oh, my. I find this incident disturbing.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

TheDemSocialist said:
I forget cops do no wrong. Even when a video shows the police officer using a banned chokehold on someone resulting in his death. Your excuse, "ahh he was fat he was gonna die no matter what". Typical.
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The headline said it was banned. Reading one of the stories the choke hold was not banned. It was not illegal. It was against the police departments guidelines. The police officer should be disciplined for violating guidelines.

I trust grand juries to get it right far more often than any other system we have devised thus far. What improvements to having your neighbors determine if the government can try you?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Texmex said:
I forget, aren't you an retired cop?
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With your vast law enforcement experience what would you do different ?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

apdst said:
He wasn't choked to death! He died because he was too fat and out of shape to pick a fight with the cops.
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BS lies! He was killed by the cops, his death was ruled a homicide. He didn't pick the fight, these ***** cops did, all this over selling loose cigarettes.

It may not matter however, I just heard Attorney General Eric Holder announce that there would be an investigation. Hopefully they will indict this murdering cop.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CanadaJohn said:
Sunny Hostin, a black woman prosecutor who's commenting on CNN now on this issue, just made an interesting comment.

She said she's been on the side of the push for cops to be outfitted with cameras so that when incidents happen there can be video of the events that courts and grand juries can see what happened and now we have this incident, fully videoed by a bystander, and it seems to have been irrelevant to the outcome of the grand jury.
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I think one has to review all of the evidence offered.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
The headline said it was banned. Reading one of the stories the choke hold was not banned. \
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Yes it was.
"Eight-year NYPD veteran Daniel Pantaleo responds by putting his arm around Garner’s neck in a chokehold – banned under police policy –"
Eric Garner: grand jury declines to indict NYPD officer over chokehold death | US news | The Guardian
"Pantaleo responded by wrapping his arm around Garner's neck in what appeared to be a chokehold, which is banned under NYPD policy."
Protests Erupt as Cop Cleared; Feds to Investigate - ABC News
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Texmex said:
BS lies! He was killed by the cops, his death was ruled a homicide. He didn't pick the fight, these ***** cops did, all this over selling loose cigarettes.

It may not matter however, I just heard Attorney General Eric Holder announce that there would be an investigation. Hopefully they will indict this murdering cop.
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This is what tyranny looks like.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

TheDemSocialist said:
Yes it was.
"Eight-year NYPD veteran Daniel Pantaleo responds by putting his arm around Garner’s neck in a chokehold – banned under police policy –"
Eric Garner: grand jury declines to indict NYPD officer over chokehold death | US news | The Guardian
"Pantaleo responded by wrapping his arm around Garner's neck in what appeared to be a chokehold, which is banned under NYPD policy."
Protests Erupt as Cop Cleared; Feds to Investigate - ABC News
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Banned, or not, it wasn't a crime.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:
Why do you bother to post messages that exactly 100% of everyone knows is 100% false and 100% show that your message is absolutely without intellectual integrity.

Exactly NO ONE claims Michael Brown was "a gentle giant.":roll:

Who are you trying to persuade, yourself?
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Hmmm. Google, it appears, is NOT your friend:

Al Sharpton, who is always first on the scene when a black person is killed by a white – or, in the case of St. Trayvon of the Blessed Hoodie, a white Hispanic – described Brown as a “gentle giant,” too. Over at Daily Kos, a writer described St. Michael as a “big guy who his family called their ‘Gentle Giant’…built to be a high school football player – direct from central casting – but Mike was too timid for the sport. According to friends and family, he had never been in a fight in his life.” CNN, The Daily Mail – all of them called him a “gentle giant.”​

Sharpton
Daily Kos writer
his family (quoted)
CNN
Daily Mail
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CanadaJohn said:
If you're suggesting that mostly-white 50-something well-to-do financial managers should just accept that some people are immune from prosecution under the laws all citizens live, you're talking to the wrong 50 something white guy.
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No. I am not saying that.

CanadaJohn said:
As I said previously, perhaps grand juries like this one are afraid of what the society they live in becomes if the police are handcuffed in doing their jobs. If more than the fringe have your view, they could be right.
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In the end, and it may be a long time coming, it won't be enough. No civilization that oppressed enough of its citizens has ever ended in anything but warfare and, ultimately, revolution.
 
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