• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Hyperbole is a bit pointless, dont you think ?

The Police Officer never intended to " Murder " anyone. He tried to arrest a Man that was resisting arrest.

The autopsy showed no damage to the Mans windpipe.

The man was obviously overweight and unhealthy.

How does your average Police Officer determine whether or not a resisting suspect is healthy enough to survive the process of being forcibly detained ?

A process that is used in the first place because the suspect refuses to comply with the Officers orders ?

They cant run a full battery of test on someone while they're in the middle of trying to put handcuffs on them.

So your'e saying the Man should have been let go? Not arrested because he had asthma ?

Allowed to break free and dictate the terms of his arrest ?

Why were they arresting him in the first place? Selling "loosey" is not an offense that warrants arrest.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

It is extremely common for large fat men past 40 to die from either being dogpiled or put in any sort of choke hold.


I'm a little disappointed there were no charges, given that choke holds are against NYPD policy.

Exactly!! Does anyone know if this cop at LEAST received a reprimand, or was it, "oh well ***** happens"
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Hyperbole is a bit pointless, dont you think ?

The Police Officer never intended to " Murder " anyone. He tried to arrest a Man that was resisting arrest.

The autopsy showed no damage to the Mans windpipe.

The man was obviously overweight and unhealthy.

How does your average Police Officer determine whether or not a resisting suspect is healthy enough to survive the process of being forcibly detained ?

A process that is used in the first place because the suspect refuses to comply with the Officers orders ?

They cant run a full battery of test on someone while they're in the middle of trying to put handcuffs on them.

So your'e saying the Man should have been let go? Not arrested because he had asthma ?

Allowed to break free and dictate the terms of his arrest ?

You've convinced me. There are only two options: let the guy go, or perform an illegal chokehold. NYPD must have been drunk when they banned chokeholds, because now they can't ever arrest anyone!
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Exactly, without premeditation. They didn't go out saying "I'm going to kill someone", but they did act recklessly in trying to apprehend this dude and killed him in the process.

Manslaughter.

If that were the case then we could call his diet of the last 40 years a "suicide".

Had the man been in good physical health he wouldn't have died. The officer, not being a doctor, couldn't know that his actions would contribute to the man's death. The "Sleeper Hold" isn't typically fatal.
 
Last edited:
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Cops are government and part of the government system. It's The People vs. The Government; always has been.

There is no "the government" in this case. There is state, local and federal governments. This is a local government system, the government closest to the people.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Exactly!! Does anyone know if this cop at LEAST received a reprimand, or was it, "oh well ***** happens"


There is still an internal investigation ongoing which will determine whether the officer acted contrary to policy, which could result in "administrative action".... potentially anything from a reprimand or suspension to being fired, though the latter is improbable.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

There is no "the government" in this case. There is state, local and federal governments. This is a local government system, the government closest to the people.

Cops are government. So yes, there is "The Government" in this case. Government, on all levels, is to be restricted and to obey the rights and liberties of the People. Is this something you've forgotten?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

There is still an internal investigation ongoing which will determine whether the officer acted contrary to policy, which could result in "administrative action".... potentially anything from a reprimand or suspension to being fired, though the latter is improbable.

What if it's the policy itself that's cocked up? How do we get that reviewed?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

then let's get back to the scenario addressed before
this fellow has a history of 31 incidents of the same scofflaw crime
at what point would the police have legitimate basis to place him under arrest

I appreciate the circumstances - as I noted in my original comment, as I edited it, the information of the 31 historical incidents came to me after I'd made my point. I'd have to ask how the other 31 incidents were handled. Clearly, wouldn't you agree, that the police found a way to charge/arrest him the other 31 times without killing him, so what was their secret? Alternately, as I said previously, what was it about this time that caused him to resist arrest to the point of dying?

Again, I agree that this man contributed to his own demise but not to the extent that Michael Brown did. What bothers me is that this is such a petty crime and one that involves no evidence of violence that I know of. There are lots of "crimes" where police simply get ID and issue a summons - shoplifting, public indecency, etc. - this seems similar in insignificance, but the grand jury likely has gotten more evidence. Perhaps in one or more of those other 31 incidents, the man also resisted arrest and an officer was hurt in the process - that seems possible, but I don't know.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

What if it's the policy itself that's cocked up? How do we get that reviewed?



I read that choke holds are against policy, so I would expect some sort of reprimand or discipline if it is believed that he used one.



Even back in my day, we knew choke holds were dangerous on people over 40, even when done properly.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Exactly, without premeditation. They didn't go out saying "I'm going to kill someone", but they did act recklessly in trying to apprehend this dude and killed him in the process.

Manslaughter.



But thats not Manslaughter.

Someone charged with Manslaughter still INTENDS to Kill his victim.

He may not have hatched a detailed plan to track the guy down and dispose of his body, but intent was there.

There's a Reason the GJ didn't come back with a lesser charge. They couldn't.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Race is irrelevant in this case imo.

The choke hold is not even the issue actually


The fact that the cops end up killing a dude over selling bootleg cigarettes is what we all should be outraged over.


why

is that not a crime?

had he not been arrested over 30 times prior for the exact same thing?

do you want this to be a country of laws, or a country of lawlessness

we can go back to the old west.....but a lot of you wont like either.......arguments settled by firearms in the middle of the street

similar to what happens in chicago neighborhoods every weekend

he broke laws.....he resisted arrest.....they tried to take him into custody

stop being a criminal, and stop being a dumbass, and the police will leave your ass alone
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

The job of police is to detain you so that you can submit to due process.

If they are killing people before justice is even served, then the police have become judge, jury and executioner. It's very wrong, and the system needs reform.

Problem is, the system almost always takes the side of police officers. It's the blue line that they all tow. Sick.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

But thats not Manslaughter.

Someone charged with Manslaughter still INTENDS to Kill his victim.

He may not have hatched a detailed plan to track the guy down and dispose of his body, but intent was there.

There's a Reason the GJ didn't come back with a lesser charge. They couldn't.

That is indeed involuntary manslaughter. We have a crime for that.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Cops are government. So yes, there is "The Government" in this case. Government, on all levels, is to be restricted and to obey the rights and liberties of the People. Is this something you've forgotten?

No, cops are not government, not the ignorant way you use the word. They generally are not federal or state, but local hires following local rules. They follow the state and federal constitution and cooperate in enforcing state and federal law when called to. Once again, because you're having such trouble with it, local government is the closest of the three to the People themselves and is directly representative.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

He looked like he was being choked to me!
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

You've convinced me. There are only two options: let the guy go, or perform an illegal chokehold. NYPD must have been drunk when they banned chokeholds, because now they can't ever arrest anyone!



It wasn't a Choke hold.

Watch the damn video. That was NOT a chokehold.

A choke hold deliberately cuts off blood flow to the brain.

That was a headlock. Typically people regain consciousness after being in choke holds because blood is allowed to return to the brian after the hold is released.

For a REAL Choke hold to be fatal it would have to continue to be applied for several minutes after the person lost consciousness.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

No, cops are not government, not the ignorant way you use the word. They generally are not federal or state, but local hires following local rules. They follow the state and federal constitution and cooperate in enforcing state and federal law when called to. Once again, because you're having such trouble with it, local government is the closest of the three to the People themselves and is directly representative.

Local government is still.....government. Interesting that you can't seem to grasp that. The agents of government are government agents. Again, interesting that you can't seem to grasp that. Government vs. the People. As always.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

No, cops are not government, not the ignorant way you use the word. They generally are not federal or state, but local hires following local rules. They follow the state and federal constitution and cooperate in enforcing state and federal law when called to. Once again, because you're having such trouble with it, local government is the closest of the three to the People themselves and is directly representative.
you cannot expect to win this argument
of course law enforcement officers are part of the government
they enforce the government's laws
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Someone charged with Manslaughter still INTENDS to Kill his victim.

Wrong. If it's intentional then the charge is murder. People go to jail for accidentally killing people all the time, it's called manslaughter. The idea of killing the person never even entered your brain but your direct actions still resulted in their death, that's called manslaughter. A good example is vehicular manslaughter. None of us go out for a drive hoping to hit someone but if we do because we did the wrong thing then we can go to jail for manslaughter even if we feel like total **** about it.

You need to stop equivocating. It's already been admitted that the chokehold was against policy, probably because, oh, I don't know, it could kill someone? The police officer killed someone. It was on footage. The fact that you're still apologizing for it when everyone in the thread agrees about what happened just shows the kind of warp police apologist world you're living in. :shrug:

The system always protects its men in blue.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

What are Police Officers supposed to do when someone resist arrest ?

Let them go ?

Not take them into custody because the guy just doesn't feel like being hamd cuffed today ?

Should Criminals be allowed to say " F-you Cop, you're not taking me in " because the Police are too scared of doing their jobs ?

My best friend from High School is a police officer and told me that at least 50 percent of the people he cuffs suddenly develope acute respiratory failure.

They " can't breath ". So what's he supposed to do ? Believe someone who'll say just about anything to NOT go to jail ?

Okay lets say I agree with the tske down.....

When someone is repeatively saying "I CAN'T BREATHE" you need to check on him. When the guy has no motion, why the hell did they not try to revive him.

I can't believe people are justifying this !!!!!!
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Why were they arresting him in the first place? Selling "loosey" is not an offense that warrants arrest.



Is that all there is to the story ?

Had the guy not been caught before doing the same thing?

And why wouldn't someone who was breaking the law be arrested ?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CanadaJohn said:
Edit: It seems that the man in this case had 31 prior arrests for similar minor offenses and apparently "knew the drill" - what possessed him to resist this one to the death is puzzling.

Maybe he was just fed up. It's not going to happen real soon, I don't think, but there are a few things that the mostly-white 50-something well-to-do financial managers who really run this country are going to discover about oppressing people at some point. It won't be pleasant, I'm afraid. In the meantime, if he had 30-odd other arrests for something he thought he should be able to do, or which was basically his only option for making a living, he may have simply had enough.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I appreciate the circumstances - as I noted in my original comment, as I edited it, the information of the 31 historical incidents came to me after I'd made my point. I'd have to ask how the other 31 incidents were handled. Clearly, wouldn't you agree, that the police found a way to charge/arrest him the other 31 times without killing him, so what was their secret? Alternately, as I said previously, what was it about this time that caused him to resist arrest to the point of dying?

Again, I agree that this man contributed to his own demise but not to the extent that Michael Brown did. What bothers me is that this is such a petty crime and one that involves no evidence of violence that I know of. There are lots of "crimes" where police simply get ID and issue a summons - shoplifting, public indecency, etc. - this seems similar in insignificance, but the grand jury likely has gotten more evidence. Perhaps in one or more of those other 31 incidents, the man also resisted arrest and an officer was hurt in the process - that seems possible, but I don't know.

This is from the wiki link posted:

On July 17, 2014, at 4:45 p.m., Eric Garner was approached by a plainclothes police officer, Justin Damico, in front of a beauty supply store at 202 Bay Street in the Tompkinsville neighborhood in Staten Island. After telling the police officers, "I was just minding my own business. Every time you see me you want to mess with me. I'm tired of it. It stops today!"[20]

They may have done so except that he had decided to become combative, so they chose instead to hook him up.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Okay lets say I agree with the tske down.....

When someone is repeatively saying "I CAN'T BREATHE" you need to check on him. When the guy has no motion, why the hell did they not try to revive him.

I can't believe people are justifying this !!!!!!

That part actually does look pretty bad from what I saw.

I don't know how much medical training NY Police Officers recieve and whether or not they could or should have done something for him.

How fast did they call in for EMT support and why didn't they attempt CPR ? I would be interested in knowing that
 
Back
Top Bottom