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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    My problem is the cops not responding to him after he was subdued. At least one of them should have assessed whether he was really having trouble breathing or not. And if they didn't give him CPR, I'd want to know why. I didn't see all the video so not sure when he was put on stretcher.

    Don't have much issue with the takedown and don't know if they had cause to arrest him or not, people, both cops and civilians, lie. The place to argue whether your arrest is legit or not is in court, not while being arrested. Refusing to allow the cops to arrest you is resisting arrest.

    Now I don't know what evidence the grand jury had, maybe it did say more or maybe it was based on the fact that only one officer was charged when all would have some culpability depending on the answers to the concerns I had. I don't think this was racism. Sure there are racist cops out there, but I haven't seen any evidence this was done due to his race. It still could be excessive without it involving race. And all the cops involved should go up for review. The one probably lose his badge for disobeying procedure and using a banned hold. The others though should have to justify why they didn't help him, at least one of them assessing him and or giving him help after it was obvious his pleas about not being able to breathe were legit.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    It had to do with court decisions, which was spun as a racial injustice, just like the other two.
    Which isn't what you said up there.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    An a lot of bad dietary choices.
    Oh, but I am sure that you raised phony outrage about Michelle Obama and school lunches...and taxes on soda.

    Because you really care about people's health don't you?

    How would you feel if an inmate in a jail, awaiting trial who was diabetic and wasn't given insulin died because of that?

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Which isn't what you said up there.
    The whole argument is based on racist cops being supported by an equally racist judicial system. That's the point.

    Which is utter BS. (As Charles Barkley thankfully said publicly.)

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    Zero tolerance causes police to kill unarmed Americans?
    Yes, I think it plays a role in that. It's obviously, not the only variable, but it is a variable.
    Mathematically it would be like r = x1 + x2 + x3 + x4 + ... + xn
    r being the end result of this police culture, well, this 0 tolerance prevalence in the USA is one of those x's.

    And 0 tolerance policies are the trademark of leftist, so-called "progressive" mindset and people who subscribe to it. And they've pushed this cultural norm in areas of life where it shouldn't be the cultural norm and it has now made its way into the police force, well, at least some of it. It's already the norm in many schools and especially, "academia" which is dominated by morons, I mean, progressive professors. The generation you raise is the people you have and the people in a country define that country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    No, it's more of a police state thing.
    As I said above, I think it has to do with the 0-tolerance culture norm that seems to be prevalent in america and gradually, in the rest of the world too. see comment 908 for more.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well, it is probalby choking him...it's just not likely doing it exceptionally well, and in a way that would actually cause consiousness issues for most healthy people.

    Maybe uncomfrotable. thats about it.


    Rather than looking at the crook of the elbow, look at the forearm across the throat. Now, barring the caveat I put in the other post (that I can't fully tell where the individuals throat is so I'm unsure how straight he has the forearm against it), that absolutely can be an windpipe choke.

    arm across throat his only leverage is his bicep, in that position which he has none, so it's not chocking his windpipe, evidenced by his screams ironically of "i can't breath"


    Since everyone is liking pictures, I'll grab a random picture of a very typical Judo choke:



    Painful, especially if applied quickly, but not something that typically is going to cause incapacitation anywhere near as quickly as sliding down it into an actual traditional rear naked/sleeper style hold. But still technically a "choke". And similar to the hold the officer has on him.

    Though again, as I said in my previous post...i've not seen the video, and just going off that picture, its impossible for me to say if that was his intent or if he was going for a blood choke and for whatever reason simply failed at it.
    similar choke except he had an underhook. and he's not paralell to the trachea, he's in a "V" which negates its effects. the choke he's attempting is a blood flow choke thats so bad it's closer to a wind choke.


    If you'd not be tapping if someone did that hold right, you've got better pain tolerance than me Then again, I've always disliked that throat constricting feeling significantly more than the pressure of a carotid.

    One always taps for correctly applied chokes, or he can sleep on his mistake.

    As to the picture...while he's doesn't have very good leverage to do anything to someone with a modicrum of ground fighting knowledge, he's got more than enough to potentially still make that choke decently effective for causing pain and making difficulty breathing to someone whose out of shape, has physical issues impairing breathing, and doesn't seem to have much knowledge of ground fighting. His shoulder and arm can be used to apply the leverage needed to keep his victims from moving back away from the choke. He's got the space there to use his legs and weight to provide a suitable base to keep the choke on.

    While there's no doubt in my mind someone like yourself, or even potentially someone like CMP, would likely not have much issue dealing with such a hold, this was a far different situation.

    I'm sure it was very uncomfortable, but his complaints of breathing issues, I can be sure it was due to the pressure applied by the other police.

    as for me? anyone with 6 months of ground fighting could make that no hook back lapel choke hurt the guy trying it. lol.



    Now all that said...

    I need to go find a food thread to post in to fully appreciate the two biggest topics of conversation I most missed having you around for


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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Boo hoo, I was harassed every time I pulled out of my drive when I was young. Funny though, I didn't get choked out.
    How many times were you handcuffed arrested and taken to jail?

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Every single word you typed here is 100% irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not the police used unnecessary force in the attempted arrest of Garner. All the typical right-wing bitching about "race hustlers" changes nothing that was captured on that tape.
    Yes it is relevant as it puts things in perspective. What was captured on the tape only tells one part. To deny that would be one with a lynch mob mentality. Lady Justice wears a blindfold that represents objectivity. The scales she holds are symbols for equality and fairness.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Do you know the difference between a headlock (pictured below) and a choke hold?
    Well one...you realize those are all professional wrestlers...and while I enjoy the entertainment, not exactly the best use for examples. Indeed, The first and third pictures you posted are actually just basically inappropriately or ineffectually applied traditional chokes. Which is kind of the point of them in wrestling...they're actual chokes, done in such a way that to a casual observer looks like it should be "choking", but in reality are pretty much harmless and work well for show.

    The second picture would be reasonable to call a headlock and not in any way a shoke. The carotid on either side may be mildly pressured, neither is significantly done so as his body isn't going to do it well and it looks like the crook of his elbow is where he'd need pressure on the other side. His arm also looks like it's coming up around the jawline rather than the neckline, ala the area one would go after with a amateur wrestling cross face, which is more in line with the notion of a "headlock". Which isn't really anything like what the officer had on this person.

    Also, for the fun of it

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress
    Hey Redress! Look, it's Chris Masters and HBK randomly showing up in a thread!

  10. #990
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    My problem is the cops not responding to him after he was subdued. At least one of them should have assessed whether he was really having trouble breathing or not. And if they didn't give him CPR, I'd want to know why. I didn't see all the video so not sure when he was put on stretcher.

    Don't have much issue with the takedown and don't know if they had cause to arrest him or not, people, both cops and civilians, lie. The place to argue whether your arrest is legit or not is in court, not while being arrested. Refusing to allow the cops to arrest you is resisting arrest.

    Now I don't know what evidence the grand jury had, maybe it did say more or maybe it was based on the fact that only one officer was charged when all would have some culpability depending on the answers to the concerns I had. I don't think this was racism. Sure there are racist cops out there, but I haven't seen any evidence this was done due to his race. It still could be excessive without it involving race. And all the cops involved should go up for review. The one probably lose his badge for disobeying procedure and using a banned hold. The others though should have to justify why they didn't help him, at least one of them assessing him and or giving him help after it was obvious his pleas about not being able to breathe were legit.
    Their cause of taking down Garner is dubious at best. They were not called to the scene to address Mr Garner at all! They were there to address a fight. There is no evidence relating to Mr. Garner selling anything illegally.

    So, at the outset, the entire process of arresting the man was not appropriate.

    Is the new standard to automatically submit to police regardless of your rights?
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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