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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    Are you suggesting that a Police Officer didn't know cutting air off from someone wouldn't be lethal? You do understand what a chokehold is, right?
    Yep, I know perfectly well was a choke hold is. I also understand that a few seconds isn't enough to do any damage in a healthy person. In fact, for real life threatening damage to occur he would need to have been choked for about 4 minutes (the point when brain damage starts). More likely Gardner's "I can't breathe" had more to do with him being a severe asthmatic with heart disease who couldn't walk a block without needing to rest. His struggle likely triggered his asthma, and laying face down with the weight of officers on top of him exacerbated it.

    For a choke hold to be fatal it would have to be applied long enough to cause death (5+ minutes) or with enough force to crush the person's windpipe making it impossible for them to breathe. The "Choke hold" in that video was no where near long enough and the autopsy found no damage to the windpipe.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Remember a Grand Jury only hears what a prosecutor wants and prosecutors don't charge policemen for killing while on duty PERIOD. They are his friends and colleges and it would create bad blood between them. The system is rigged to protect police. Here in Ft. Meyers FL a cop was texting when he ran over and killed a 12 year old on a bike. No charges were filed and the kid was white too. Don't kid yourself. Cops have a license to kill just like 007 did. The scary part is that they know it too.
    Sad but true. More evidence of the US police state.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the high tax absolutely discourages smoking
    it does not end it

    but that vice/luxury tax is certainly something which serves as a disincentive to existing and prospective smokers

    and just as i fill up in the next state (12 miles away) to save 30c a gallon, those in new york seek out 'discounted' cigarettes, buying them where they were not taxed so significantly (but where gas taxes are among the highest)
    Most smokers I know merely switched to off-brands (read: cheaper). They didn't quit, or even really slow down. Some did, but they were the exception.

    I think the cause & effect of taxes reducing smoking was two-fold: 1) new smokers who weren't as hooked yet stopped, and 2) it discouraged new people from starting, though I think enhanced anti-smoking education and public smoking bans had as much to do with both as taxes, if not more.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yes we know Vancemack, play the game of real vs. fake. It allows you to avoid discussing what everyone saw happened in this video. However, for all your distractions, they don't detract from the fact that this guy was being arrested for allegedly selling a few cigarettes. Spare me your support for other cases you feel people were really abused. I don't honestly give much of a **** about your ever changing standards for when black men should be and shouldn't be attacked. I'm surprised you haven't brought up a Malcolm X quote about Democrats or complained about how people aren't discussing black on black violence. It must be because this guy was seen by cops breaking up a fight or you would have jumped on that strategy. Now all you have is the fake vs. real game and I'm really not interested in discussing whether someone should be violently brought down for the terrible crime of being angry that police harass him.



    I think this goes much further than this. We see white cop abuse black cop plastered all over the news, unless a white kid does something funny (don't taze me bro), we NEVER hear about it. it's a law enforcment mentality issue, that's transcending race at this point which is what I believe even that sharpton clown is seeing.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Keep at it, it gets really fun at blue belt. make sure your school promotes based on ability, not time in grade.
    Thanks, and it is based on ability, but with my work hours I can only make there twice a week. I would love to do an extra day a week but we'll see what happens.


    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Nope, I'd never tap on that hold. where his elbow creases is, his trach has space. also without hooks in, he's got no leverage.
    I would wager you have more training and in much better shape than Eric Garner. Someone with asthma could very easily lose their wind with forearm pressure to a hold like that. Aside from that, from my viewpoint, the Officer's forearm is against the neck.



    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I agree. but I see no reason why garner needed to be "disabled" at that point in the video.
    I agree with this as well. Unless Garner was being a clear and present threat to someone (or being charged with a crime) then the Officer shouldn't have had his hands on him in the first place.




    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    yes, grey shirt is attempting the classic escape from the back.
    In the picture grey shirt has his hand gripping blue shirt's hand, probably more an attempt to remove the hold or not. Then again this is all on aside

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Yep, I know perfectly well was a choke hold is. I also understand that a few seconds isn't enough to do any damage in a healthy person. In fact, for real life threatening damage to occur he would need to have been choked for about 4 minutes (the point when brain damage starts). More likely Gardner's "I can't breathe" had more to do with him being a severe asthmatic with heart disease who couldn't walk a block without needing to rest. His struggle likely triggered his asthma, and laying face down with the weight of officers on top of him exacerbated it.

    For a choke hold to be fatal it would have to be applied long enough to cause death (5+ minutes) or with enough force to crush the person's windpipe making it impossible for them to breathe. The "Choke hold" in that video was no where near long enough and the autopsy found no damage to the windpipe.
    I'm not debating that Garner was killed by the choke, what I am saying is that the choke itself was clearly meant to be just that, a choke. Garner's life was clearly in danger by this choke. The Officer in question intended to choke Eric Garner, and choking as we all know can be lethal. Plain and simple.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Still at it? Why is is that you despise justice?
    If justice is killing an unarmed man for suspicion of selling loose cigarettes - God help us all.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I think this goes much further than this. We see white cop abuse black cop plastered all over the news, unless a white kid does something funny (don't taze me bro), we NEVER hear about it. it's a law enforcment mentality issue, that's transcending race at this point which is what I believe even that sharpton clown is seeing.
    I agree. I'm just pointing out that VanceMack can't point to this guy's criminality. So all he's left with is the bull**** real vs. fake arguments. For him, this isn't really abuse because some guy elsewhere had it worse. Okay fine, from now - if a man beats his wife, it's not really abuse because there are guys who have decapitated their wives. From now on, molesting 1 child is not really child abuse because there are catholic priests who molested hundreds. What I pointed out is that he doesn't have his usual bull**** arguments about how the police were right because he maybe did something terrible. He's got no pictures of this guy pretending to be a thug on myspace. All he's got is real vs. fake and that's all he needs to support police chokeholding a guy who didn't enjoy being harassed by the police.

    Never you mind, if this case had been different, he'd have come into the thread screeching about showing common sense and how people are being excessive. Now he's pretending to be rationally looking at the events. Utter apologist bull****. This case has been universally criticized for the response of the GJ and the fact that even after a video clearly shows that the police were in the wrong, nothing happened. It's cases like this that give minorities in cities the perception that no matter what, there is a system working against them and they've been proven right at least as far as minorities go.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-04-14 at 10:55 AM.
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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    You a NY cop? No, you are not. They had the right based on his rep and previous multiple arrests. You are trying to convince me the cops were in the wrong.
    Forget it, you cant. Not in this instance.
    The only way a Police officer can restrain or even lay their hands on citizens if the citizen is being arrested or if physical contact prevents the situation from escalating. Even then, it can't intentionally harm the person. (For instance, they can push someone away from another individual if the pushed individual were to provoke a fight.) Choke holds like the one the officer used on Garner is prohibited in a good number of Police Departments for this reason. His rep and rap sheet are completely irrelevant.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    His "fight" consisted of a weak slapping motion, at which point he was IMMEDIATELY put in a chokehold, after which four officers dogpiled him, one of whom had his knee on Garner's temple.

    Don't start using war dead as props to justify police using OBVIOUSLY excessive force. That's tacky as ****.
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
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    What will be the reaction in NYC tonight as another grand jury chooses not to hand down an indictment for a white police officer who killed a black man who resisted arrest?
    I've been thinking about this event. What a tragedy. I mean, think about a guy who's trying to earn some (what amounts to) spare change selling loosies on the streets of New York. And he's dead now. IMO, it has to do with training. De-escalation is a cop's friend.

    So, what else might the cops have done with this guy?

    "Hey, man, we've had a couple of complaints from business owners nearby. You're either going to have to move on? Or we're going to have to arrest you. Your choice. Me? I don't want to do the paperwork. Keep moving." Frankly, that could've been done from out-the-window of a squad car. Circle a 4-block area and come back to make sure he's gone.

    If he doesn't leave, then we're back to a confrontation. I like to think/hope that we all agree with the rule of law in this country. But what kind of confrontation? I'd say a taser, not a 5-guy pile-on. That should probably be policy. I envision this:

    "You're under arrest (for xxxxx). So here's what's going to happen. I'm going to cuff you and take you down to the station. If you resist, that officer over there is going to taze you, and, on top of this misdemeanor charge, you're going to jail for resisting arrest." (Other officer standing with tazer in hand.)

    Too fat to get tazed? Too bad. Too old to get tazed? Too bad. There simply MUST be procedures that cops are required to follow before they can do a pile-on. We have the technology. Body cameras, tasers, etc. It's time we learned how to use them all.

    It's also too bad the DA decided a grand jury was appropriate. This was a wrongful (albeit accidental) death. "I can't breath - I can't breath - I can't breath" means the guy was subdued. His lying on his stomach with weight on his back from the grappling officers? The consequence of that (his death) can be easily predicted. The officers should have been charged. No grand jury required.
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