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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

  1. #671
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    I wonder why your question is ONLY about the reaction and contains no reference to the incident itself?
    I posed the question because of the similarities in circumstances - black man resisting arrest, dying in the process, how a community will react - it was relevant to me based on the issue of police and race relations in various parts of the country. But I did comment on the direct circumstances of the arrest/incident in subsequent posts.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    No. I am not saying that.



    In the end, and it may be a long time coming, it won't be enough. No civilization that oppressed enough of its citizens has ever ended in anything but warfare and, ultimately, revolution.
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you think most citizens in our civilization think prohibiting people from selling loose cigarettes on the streets is so oppressive as to warrant a revolution, you're just delusional and part of the fringe problems today's society faces and not part of the solution.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    The cop who killed him could have at least taken his knee, using his complete body weight as leverage, off the man's head.
    I just want to note that from the video it's not entirely clear to me that there's a "cop who killed him". Granted, there is one cop who put him in a hold, choke hold or otherwise, and wrestled him to the ground. But then, once on the ground, there were several officers on Garner's body and there was several officers "complete body weight" used as leverage to keep Garner down. Similar to "piling on" when we were kids, the guy on the bottom of a bunch of bodies is going to have a hard time breathing when his chest is compressed and he can't move and cardiac arrest is not far away. The only thing entirely clear from the video is that the choke hold brought him down.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  4. #674
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    He wasn't selling contraband cigarettes at the time of the incident. He had numerous prior arrests/citations for that "crime," but that's not what he was doing when the cops confronted him at that moment.
    Exactly. This is abundantly clear in the video.

    This should be shown to every police officer as an instructional video of how NOT to handle a situation. I can see a dozen ways this could have been handled without tackling the guy to the ground and putting him in a choke hold. Being big and black should not be grounds to use excessive force.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Resisting arrest does not automatically justify lethal force.
    The officers had no way of knowing that the force would be lethal.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  6. #676
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    You know what, I learned something today. I didn't know that resisting arrest under some circumstances and in some states is legal, but upon looking it up, it seems that's the case.

    Reading more about it, though, I also learned that an arrest made in error is not unlawful if the officer's belief that the arrest was lawful was reasonable.

    In this case, the arrest was reasonable, because the man was breaking the law by selling contraband cigarettes.
    You can legally resist unlawful commands by law enforcement up to and including the use of deadly force. That was an SC ruling around the turn of the 20th Century - don't remember the citation offhand.

    As you point out arrests made out of legitimate errors are lawful and you are legally required to comply with them. Also given the extreme deference prosecutors and courts give police I'd think your chances with that as a defense in all but the most obvious cases are slim.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Well perhaps not, but not the case here. He wasn't ever charged that we know of for tax evasion. He was selling illegal merchandise. Big difference.


    59% of all cigarettes sold in the city are bootleg. Is it big enough a difference to say the officers acted appropriately here? I don't.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  8. #678
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Unlike how the media portrays this in incessant, false and destructive race baiting, this incident has NO similarity to the Michael Brown shooting. None.

    I have NO problem with Michael Brown being shot. ZERO.

    This incident is outrageous and totally unacceptable police conduct.
    If all is as it seems I'm likely to agree.
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

  9. #679
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Nope, was not there. But you think cops just waltz up to someone and choke them out for kicks?


    yes, they decided to harrass a citizen they have had run-ins with before. In this case he had broken up a fight and they used it as an opportunity to harrass him again.

    The video shows this, clearly
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    The fact that he was morbidly obese is what we should be outraged over.


    Not my problem. people are free to poison themselves as they wish. Does not mean that police should be allowed to kill him.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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