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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    No, it won't. Because most people have no idea how grand juries work, or why such extensive presentations of evidence are actually an example of the prosecutor manipulating the process.

    Normally, the only purpose of a grand jury is to ensure there's enough evidence to warrant a trial. The prosecutor usually only presents a handful of evidence, enough to convince enough grand jurors to indict. In most cases, a grand jury will spend less than a day on its deliberations.

    However, a GJ proceeding is NOT a trial. There's no cross-examination, no one to challenge the witnesses, no way to question the evidence. It's all one-sided, with the prosecutor in charge. If the prosecutor doesn't want the cop to be indicted, he can find ways to discredit the evidence, with no one advocating for it, and allow the accused officer to speak without being cross-examined.

    In addition, there are reports that the prosecutor required the jury to either indict for murder, or nothing at all. The GJ was apparently not given the option to indict for lesser charges. From the same source you cited, no less..... Garner Grand Jury Didn?t Consider Lesser Charges -- NYMag

    The purpose of a grand jury is not to decide guilt or innocence. It's much simpler than that. And when a grand jury proceeding takes 9 weeks and 50 witnesses -- when in most cases it takes a day -- it doesn't take much to recognize that the prosecutor is up to something. And no release of grand jury transcripts will reveal what.
    Posters on here have been using the video as evidence that the cop was at fault here and should have been charged. So how exactly did the prosecutor discredit the video, squelch the advocates of the video, and find a way to convince the majority of 12 citizens to ignore the video that everyone else saw?
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    He did not try to fight the cops!
    He resisted.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    How about "don't break the law and you won't have to worry about a confrontation with the police"?
    I only agree with this to a point. I think there are definitely circumstances where someone not breaking the law might still be in a situation where they could have a confrontation with the police. The level of that confrontation though, and how far it goes is going to almost always be based on the person's reactions and cooperation with the police. There are a few situations where the police officer is just stupid, crazy, or on a power trip that leads to a cooperative person getting hurt or killed, and those should absolutely be dealt with. We haven't really been seeing those though, with some exceptions that are getting very little attention.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    He resisted.
    Resisting and fighting ain't the same thing. And his "resistance" was pretty pitiful.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Posters on here have been using the video as evidence that the cop was at fault here and should have been charged. So how exactly did the prosecutor discredit the video, squelch the advocates of the video, and find a way to convince the majority of 12 citizens to ignore the video that everyone else saw?
    Present the jury with Murder 2 and Murder 2 only. Don't give them the option of involuntary manslaughter. What was on the video doesn't qualify as murder - must people looking at the video would agree to that. What was on the video is arguably involuntary manslaughter - arguably enough to warrant a trial.

    End result: no indictment.
    Last edited by Gaius46; 12-09-14 at 09:37 AM.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Present the jury with Murder 2 and Murder 2 only. Don't give them the option of involuntary manslaughter. What was on the video doesn't qualify as murder - must people looking at the video would agree to that. End result: no indictment.
    In general, a person may not use physical force to resist a lawful arrest by a police officer who is known or reasonably appears to be a peace officer. Resisting an arrest is a misdemeanor. Resisting arrest typically involves an arrestee physically struggling with an officer as he tries to place on handcuffs, or when the arrestee struggles as he is being placed in a patrol car or jail cell.

    A common defense to resisting arrest is that the officer acted with excessive force. While an arrestee is expected to comply with an officer's reasonable actions to affect an arrest, the arrestee is allowed to defend himself from unreasonable, excessive force used by the officer.


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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by twixie1 View Post
    In general, a person may not use physical force to resist a lawful arrest by a police officer who is known or reasonably appears to be a peace officer. Resisting an arrest is a misdemeanor. Resisting arrest typically involves an arrestee physically struggling with an officer as he tries to place on handcuffs, or when the arrestee struggles as he is being placed in a patrol car or jail cell.

    A common defense to resisting arrest is that the officer acted with excessive force. While an arrestee is expected to comply with an officer's reasonable actions to affect an arrest, the arrestee is allowed to defend himself from unreasonable, excessive force used by the officer.

    Can you cite case law for that? The only relevant case law I know - actually a SC decision - dealt with defense against an unlawful arrest where the person reasonably believed the cop knew the arrest was unlawful.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Present the jury with Murder 2 and Murder 2 only. Don't give them the option of involuntary manslaughter. What was on the video doesn't qualify as murder - must people looking at the video would agree to that. What was on the video is arguably involuntary manslaughter - arguably enough to warrant a trial.

    End result: no indictment.
    He didn't present them with Murder 1 and Murder 2. He presented them with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Can you cite case law for that? The only relevant case law I know - actually a SC decision - dealt with defense against an unlawful arrest where the person reasonably believed the cop knew the arrest was unlawful.
    Certainly..

    Possible Defenses Against Resisting Arrest Charges - Attorneys.com

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Resisting and fighting ain't the same thing. And his "resistance" was pretty pitiful.
    No the point. He was a criminal.

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