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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

  1. #2271
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Read my response to ReverendHellh0und. No one was going for a rear naked choke.


    Not a rear naked, a no-gi lapel choke where the under hook acts as the "lapel" for leverage. at best a modified rear naked if you must. but it's basic jits 101 applied horribly wrong.

  2. #2272
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    IIRC, It takes Four in Texas....



    Can't wait for someone to defend this.
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    Generalizations are stupid.
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    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    The cop that arrested Garner was following what the Chief of Police told him to do and that is crack down on those selling black market cigarettes. The cop got his orders from the Chief of Police. The Chief of Police got his orders from the Police Commissioner. The Police Commissioner got his order from Mayor de Balsio.
    And the Mayor was the first to throw the Police under the bus.

  4. #2274
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    Can't wait for someone to defend this.
    That jaywalking thug got what she deserved!





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  5. #2275
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Do you think the NYPD is also searching business people's bags coming into the airports - something done as easily as the scanners they already use for baggage? Or focus on trying to catch can't-afford-any-defense and no-influence-or-political-power folks on the street? One of those "go round up the usual suspects" to fake-show they are doing something - when there isn't a damn thing the police can do about people buying black market cigarettes.

    They can't stop felony drug sales. How are they going to stop people bringing in cheaper cartons of cigarettes?

    Do your SERIOUSLY believe that guys like him are the major source of cigarette taxes not being paid?

    Curious no cigarettes he supposed had to sell were ever shown, were they? I guess that has to be secret too?
    There happens to be a real problem with untaxed cigarettes in NYC. Garner wasn't the only one selling them. Business owners are arrested for selling them too. The huge number of untaxed cigarettes they confiscate are then auctioned off to bidders after they have received the proper state stamp. Last I read close to 50% of all cigarettes being consumed in NYC are untaxed. That's what happens when people allow their legislatures to tax the heck out of something they don't approve the use of personally. It turns people into smugglers. It turned John Hancock into a smuggler over taxes.

    New harsher laws/penalties for selling untaxed cigarettes went into effect this year in NYC thanks to Mayor Bloomberg. Instead of issuing a citation like a traffic violation, cops in NYC have to treat selling untaxed cigarettes (loosies) with an arrest. Just days before Garner's death the cops had got their marching orders from the higher ups to "crackdown" on the sell of "loosies". It's a crying shame a cop has been put into that position but it wasn't of his making.

    It was business owners calling the police telling them of Garner's activities that led them to put him under surveillance. And he was arrested multiple times in possession of cigarettes that were untaxed.

    As far as arrest goes, the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the US Justice Department, the continuum is a set of policies that “describes an escalating series of actions an officer may take to resolve a situation.”

    “Pain Compliance” is a stage along the continuum.

    What the jury was instructed to do is determine if the NYPD officer's hold on Garner was an accepted “Pain Compliance technique”. The next step would have been to Taser along the "Use of Force Continuum" if the first wasn't successful. Experts in the field of law enforcement called what the officer did to be within guidelines. Obviously the Grand Jury agreed with them.

    It's unfortunate that NYC cops have been put into a position to shakedown people over untaxed cigarettes.
    It's unfortunate Garner resisted arrest. He had a long rap sheet and had he lived he was facing jail time again in October. Maybe that had to do with him not submitting to the arrest.
    It's unfortunate that the leadership of this country including the top cop Holder to the President to the mayor of NYC are using this incident to be about racism when it was store owners who were predominantly black, where Garner would set up his business of selling his cigarettes that reported his activities. The police officers on the scene including their lieutenant, is a black female. Her superior, the Chief of Police is also black.

  6. #2276
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    There happens to be a real problem with untaxed cigarettes in NYC. Garner wasn't the only one selling them. Business owners are arrested for selling them too. The huge number of untaxed cigarettes they confiscate are then auctioned off to bidders after they have received the proper state stamp. Last I read close to 50% of all cigarettes being consumed in NYC are untaxed. That's what happens when people allow their legislatures to tax the heck out of something they don't approve the use of personally. It turns people into smugglers. It turned John Hancock into a smuggler over taxes.

    New harsher laws/penalties for selling untaxed cigarettes went into effect this year in NYC thanks to Mayor Bloomberg. Instead of issuing a citation like a traffic violation, cops in NYC have to treat selling untaxed cigarettes (loosies) with an arrest. Just days before Garner's death the cops had got their marching orders from the higher ups to "crackdown" on the sell of "loosies". It's a crying shame a cop has been put into that position but it wasn't of his making.

    It was business owners calling the police telling them of Garner's activities that led them to put him under surveillance. And he was arrested multiple times in possession of cigarettes that were untaxed.

    As far as arrest goes, the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the US Justice Department, the continuum is a set of policies that “describes an escalating series of actions an officer may take to resolve a situation.”

    “Pain Compliance” is a stage along the continuum.

    What the jury was instructed to do is determine if the NYPD officer's hold on Garner was an accepted “Pain Compliance technique”. The next step would have been to Taser along the "Use of Force Continuum" if the first wasn't successful. Experts in the field of law enforcement called what the officer did to be within guidelines. Obviously the Grand Jury agreed with them.

    It's unfortunate that NYC cops have been put into a position to shakedown people over untaxed cigarettes.
    It's unfortunate Garner resisted arrest. He had a long rap sheet and had he lived he was facing jail time again in October. Maybe that had to do with him not submitting to the arrest.
    It's unfortunate that the leadership of this country including the top cop Holder to the President to the mayor of NYC are using this incident to be about racism when it was store owners who were predominantly black, where Garner would set up his business of selling his cigarettes that reported his activities. The police officers on the scene including their lieutenant, is a black female. Her superior, the Chief of Police is also black.
    Can you link to Holder and/or Obama saying what you claim they are re: Garner?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Last I read close to 50% of all cigarettes being consumed in NYC are untaxed.
    The source for that, such as it is, is a conservative anti-tax organization, which in turn cites a study put out by a think tank partly funded by the tobacco industry. Apparently there's a lot of estimation, and very little actual research.


    New harsher laws/penalties for selling untaxed cigarettes went into effect this year in NYC thanks to Mayor Bloomberg. Instead of issuing a citation like a traffic violation, cops in NYC have to treat selling untaxed cigarettes (loosies) with an arrest.
    Yet again: Blaming this outcome on cigarette taxes is absurd.

    The NYPD use significant levels of force to arrest people for all sorts of minor infractions. As I've posted multiple times already in this thread, here's a video of an NYPD officer striking 20 year old Donovan Lawson with a baton, with 2 other officers joining to detain him. Donovan's criminal act? Jumping a subway turnstile, instead of paying the $2.50 fare. Even if you think the level of force was appropriate, this clearly demonstrates that there is no real connection between the actual nature of the infraction, and the level of force used by the NYPD during the arrest.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVoOQbDT1QE


    As far as arrest goes, the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the US Justice Department, the continuum is a set of policies that “describes an escalating series of actions an officer may take to resolve a situation.”

    “Pain Compliance” is a stage along the continuum.
    Are choke holds allowed? Because they're banned by the NYPD.


    It's unfortunate that NYC cops have been put into a position to shakedown people over untaxed cigarettes.
    It's unfortunate Garner resisted arrest. He had a long rap sheet and had he lived he was facing jail time again in October. Maybe that had to do with him not submitting to the arrest.
    It's unfortunate that the leadership of this country including the top cop Holder to the President to the mayor of NYC are using this incident to be about racism....
    It's disgusting that conservatives are trying to blame this on, of all things, cigarette taxes.

    It's repulsive that some people are apparently just fine with minimal review of police officers who cause the deaths of suspects in their custody.

    It's astounding that some people will go to any lengths to avoid any discussion of race in the issues of police and community relations.

    It's unfortunate that some people use this incident to indulge in their routine bashing of specific political figures. Many of whom just happen to be black. Hmmmm.

  8. #2278
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    It wasn't real violent in the one video, but the evidence is clearly there that he was resisting arrest.
    Got a question. When someone is still speaking saying "I can't breathe"....isn't that a sure sign that they are indeed breathing?
    He said it around 11 times. And yes...he was still breathing. However...a heart attack would feel pretty similar.

    Its funny watching all the people here but I DO think there is a lesson learned. In the future, If someone decides they want to be a criminal be it selling untaxed cigarette or any of the other 30 charges Brown ahs face or the 27 his buddy the camerman has faced or hell...bank robbery or whatever....just pig out for a few years and become morbidly obese and when the cops come to arrest you, just say "Leave me alone! I told you last time, just leave me alone! I dont wanna be arrested." And the cops will say...well...OK...and walk away. And if they insist, tell them, "look...Im so fat if you try to arrest me I will have a heart attack and die, right here on the spot." THAT should do it.

  9. #2279
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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    I like how the same people who were cheering the idea of Cliven Bundy having a shootout with federal agents are now making the argument that Eric Garner should meekly accept several police officers attacking him without provocation, and that truthfully pointing out that they had no grounds to stop him or arrest him is apparently sufficient cause to kill him. The message I see is "hate federal cops, but always submit to local cops, and white rural people standing up for themselves when they do something illegal but contest the validity of the actions the government is taking against them is perfectly legitimate, but when an urban black does it, it's fine to kill him."

    Seriously, we saw it on video. The cops came up to him, and he was doing nothing illegal. He, completely within his rights, said he didn't want to talk to them, and they illegally chose to arrest him and then killed him in the process. What the hell does it take to punish criminals in uniform!?
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  10. #2280
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Do you have a mainstream source, Kemosabe? Something a bit more well known then "Vice". In my neck of the woods, tobacco products are heisted all the time. If they are not recovered, they end up being sold on the street by brain dead twits like Garner. Not that it matters.....stolen or smuggled. It's still a crime.
    What, what decade were you born in? Vice is pretty well known amongst documentary filmmakers...
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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