• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Why wouldn't you care either way? It's success rate, while low, is still a success rate. And it's further lowered because it is often not applied properly, or applied too late.

You, as a health care worker, don't care that CPR wasn't performed on an unconscious man by police or EMS?

I wasn't there, I didn't see what was going on, and I had no control over the situation, but no, I don't care either way. If there was a legal obligation for them to do so, I'm sure that will come out during the investigative process. But do I care? No. It was cops, not nurses.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The only offense I saw was his horrible obesity.

If you disagree with the tax laws then lets rebel together and change things. I recommend you begin by contacting your local state senator and state representative. Demand that they petition the Congress for an Article V convention of states to propose amendments.

I admire your emotions. That poor fat slob should have simply allowed arrest 32 to continue and our ineffective judicial system would have had his fat butt back out on the streets selling individual cigarettes in no time. I would not be surprised if he was one of the fifty million Americans being carried by the rest of us through the welfare system. I don't know that to be true but don't many low grade common criminals depend upon welfare for the bulk of their "living"?

When the police choose to no longer act then arming up will be your remaining remedy. In the end only you are responsible for your safety.

Obesity isn't punishable by death.

You want to justify the killing of someone over something so freaking petty.

You are using obesity as your cognitive dissonance. You are the one blood dancing here and praising the actions of an overactive police using deadly force for a silly thing that should be no more than a summons.

Sounds like you are the one licking the jackboots.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The fact that the GJ didn't even so much as bring forward a manslaughter charge shows that it wasn't considered. C'mon tres. You can't be blind to what happened here. Police tried to arrest a guy for selling bootleg cigarettes. He was handled in a way banned by the NYPD. There was no evidence he was selling bootleg cigarettes. Guy is now dead and a ****ty police officer is probably on paid leave.

Huh? I don't think you've read my posts in this thread my friend. I didn't say that the cop is not culpable of something here. I don't really care about the bootleg cigs. I asked what the charges were the GJ was supposed to consider, that's all. I asked because I don't know. I know what the Ferguson GJ was asked to consider.

My husband just said this cop was suspended without pay in July according to everything he's heard on the news and read on the net?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Have you actually read the responses in this thread? The decision by the GJ has been criticized by far left wingers, tough on crime right wingers and libertarians. Who has defended it? The same 6-7 people who get accused of being closeted racists. Who else? The same 6-7 posters that will defend cops no matter the circumstance because of the bull**** line that they have a hard job to do.

That you're trying to paint Goshin - a former cop - as someone who is accustomed to running from the law is pretty ****ing laughable if not downright ridiculous. What? Ockham is accustomed to running from the law? Digsbe too? What about notabene? PerfectStorm? Is he accustomed to running from the law? The Rev is accustomed to running from the law too? Μολὼν λαβέ is accustomed to running from the law? You're looking ridiculously silly in your assertion. Get the **** outta here with that bull**** before someone a little less restricted in their words decides to call you on it.
What you are saying is that emotion trumps logic.

EVeryone "feels" that something wrong occurred. So, therefore it must have.

But the grand jury who reviewed the evidence for a crime found there to be insufficient evidence to charge anyone with a crime. And that is justice.

To deny that is to invite tyrants into our homes.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You of course realize I just tried to lick my elbow to see if you're right.

You're right. On both counts.

Yeah. But can you stick your head up your *** like many of the posters here have done? LOL. If they already have then perhaps you can too.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Can you provide a link to show that the hold the officer used was illegal?
I could have 6 hours ago but it seems that information has since been removed from a NY Post article and Wikipedia article under Death of Eric Garner. So maybe it isn't and I was misinformed? This is really strange. And if I have put out bad data, I do apologize. I'll keep checking .....
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You don't think so? It seems pretty obvious. If you do something that causes another person to die who otherwise wouldn't have, you can be charged with some sort of homicide.

No, I don't think so. The case I found the guy had a heart attack caused by a prank. The so called killer on the other hand got charged with first degree murder. Yeah, real intent to kill on that one. :lamo
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

\
Yes it is illegal in NYC to use the chokehold. The officer was stripped of his badge and gun for that action.

You have made this claim several times. Do you have a link to show it is against the law?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You don't think so? It seems pretty obvious. If you do something that causes another person to die who otherwise wouldn't have, you can be charged with some sort of homicide.

Like Zimmerman?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Yes, you are not the only person on the forum who believes that anything but instance and absolute submission to government authority is an automatic death sentence - or at least a beating sentence. You are not the only person here who equates government to God.

Nice straw man argument there. I never said anything of the sort.

The police didn't set out to kill this man, and they didn't beat him. They restrained him forcefully because he was RESISTING.

He died because he had health issues that were not immediately apparent.

This is tragic, but some of you are implying malice when there was none.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064051679 said:
I know what you meant. I just think the whole incident could have been avoided. How many times does a guy on the ground being restrained by 4 or more cops have to say he can't breathe before the cop who killed him takes another approach to his restraint technique?

Didn't he weigh (live weight) about 400 pounds? And he was resisting arrest. And now you are wondering why several police officers chose to help to get him on the ground and under control?

Dead he probably weighed less.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Of-course he should have been arrested, he broke the law.



Just how did he break the law?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Huh? I don't think you've read my posts in this thread my friend. I didn't say I agree that the cop is not culpable of something here. I don't really care about the bootleg cigs. I asked what the charges were the GJ was supposed to consider, that's all. I asked because I don't know. I know what the Ferguson GJ was asked to consider.

And I responded... the fact that they didn't even think this was a case of manslaughter is a pretty big indication that they didn't consider manslaughter. I think I should have made my statement clearer. I used consider as a synonym for find.

My husband just said this cop was suspended without pay in July according to everything he's heard on the news and read on the net?

This is from July:

NYPD Cop in Chokehold Death Loses Gun, Badge - ABC News

Police Commissioner Bill Bratton had announced Friday that the cop and his partner were on "desk duty," but they still had their guns and shields.

He's been getting paid.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I wasn't there, I didn't see what was going on, and I had no control over the situation, but no, I don't care either way. If there was a legal obligation for them to do so, I'm sure that will come out during the investigative process. But do I care? No. It was cops, not nurses.

Isn't it important to start chest compressions as soon as possible on someone who isn't breathing? It doesn't seem like a subject to be laissez faire about.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I could have 6 hours ago but it seems that information has since been removed from a NY Post article and Wikipedia article under Death of Eric Garner. So maybe it isn't and I was misinformed? This is really strange. And if I have put out bad data, I do apologize. I'll keep checking .....

It isn't illegal. It was banned by the NYPD.

(Info just fed to me by Mr. B who called his sister's husband who just retired after 17 years with NYPD) - please confirm on internet if this info is false. My BIL said people who keep calling it "illegal" are wrong, it's not "illegal" just prohibited by the NYPD.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

When the cops tackle and choke an unarmed black man for not paying 5 cent taxes on his cigarette singles, that form of government tyranny is okay for some conservatives.

No. It actually isn't. It is beyond time for you to join your locale TEA party and help with the tax revolt. You can recognize us. We are friendly and we pick up our trash.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

It looked like he died from decades of stupidity.

Not according to the corner, it was ruled homicide.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

What you are saying is that emotion trumps logic.

No, what I'm saying is that Erod's claim of the people posting in this thread is complete bull****. Now move along.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Amadeus, they didn't tackle and choke him because he wasn't paying a tax. They took him to the ground because he resisted arrest.

People!!! Tell your damned kids, family and friends to fight the coppers in the courtroom not on the street. We've lost hundreds of thousands of men in battlefields to give you that right. Jesus!!

One thing I don't recall hearing is an officer telling him to turn around and but his hands behind his back or even "you're under arrest." I just see a police officer grabbing at his arm, then another and him then taken down.

Was he ever told "you're under arrest" or "put your hands behind you back" (or in the air or "get on the ground" etc.)? Maybe I just missed that part of it. It seems before someone is "resisting arrest" they have to be told they are under arrest, not just grabbing at him. Again, I maybe missed that part of it.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

No, I don't think so. The case I found the guy had a heart attack caused by a prank. The so called killer on the other hand got charged with first degree murder. Yeah, real intent to kill on that one. :lamo

Wow, yeah, that's pretty dumb. I could see some sort of recklessness charge, but this country has a real blood lust when it comes to justice sometimes.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

And that is the whole purpose of the once revered US Constitution. If you believe what you wrote then get your state to demand an Article V convention of states to propose amendments.

It was the purpose, but the government no longer seems bound by it.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Isn't it important to start chest compressions as soon as possible on someone who isn't breathing? It doesn't seem like a subject to be laissez faire about.

Yes it is, and I carefully explained to you that in the field, it rarely makes any difference, because you don't have access to drugs, defibs, pacers, oxygen, iv fluids, intubation trays, and the rest of the emergency management equipment that you need. And yes, laissez faire. It's a routine procedure to me. There's nothing mysterious about it, and if everything is perfect and available at the moment of death, you still have a small chance.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

And I responded... the fact that they didn't even think this was a case of manslaughter is a pretty big indication that they didn't consider manslaughter. I think I should have made my statement clearer. I used consider as a synonym for find.



This is from July:

NYPD Cop in Chokehold Death Loses Gun, Badge - ABC News



He's been getting paid.

So they were asked to consider only manslaughter? I'll wait until they release the testimonies to see what happened. I'm not even sure of the legal definition of manslaughter but I know this death certainly wasn't "murder".

Thanks for the link from July, but my husband is surfing around now and he says so far almost everything he's seen says the guy is on unpaid leave and lost his badge and gun for now. Maybe that things changed since July?
 
Back
Top Bottom