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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If they're banned from using the procedure, how can they also have the authority to use it? I'll wait for you to figure that out.
    The police are authorized to enforce a legal arrest and in so doing may use whatever means are necessary to enforce that arrest. There is no law prohibiting a police officer from using the type of hold displayed in the video. A police officer in NYC may, upon using such a means, be subject to police department disciplinary proceedings and penalties, including potentially dismissal. Adherence to police department procedures may be a condition of employment but may also be waived if the police officer in question can prove or convince those he/she reports to or a disciplinary hearing that the procedure was necessary under the circumstances and use of the procedure was not a blatant disregard of police department objectives but was a necessity of performing their lawful duty.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Here are cops actually earning their paycheck against a total bad ass. Notice no choke hold. or lethal moves.

    Surely you have some sort of point to make with that video. Is it "This is what happens to dumbasses that resist arrest"? Or is it "Rather than apply a choke hold, the cops in NYC should have beaten him batons"? Or maybe, "see? Universally...in the US or Poland, when an incident like this occurs cops are trained to swarm the individual until he is detained just like in NY"?

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The video is VERY telling. The police officer grabbed him from behind in a poorly locked in choke hold for 8 seconds until the man was on the ground. The hold was then released and he was held on the ground while being cuffed. He was not shouting "I cant breathe" while the 'choke hold' was applied but while he was on the ground. Thats far more indicative of a heart attack than anything else but what is certain is that it was NOT caused by a choke hold.

    The fallback position is "the police caused his death". That is not correct. He decided to be combative with law enforcement and that had the EXACT SAME result it will have in ANY situation involving ANYONE. Law enforcement will win. You and everyone here arguing against the police KNOW that to be fact. NONE of you are stupid enough to openly advocate for citizens to physically resist arrest and none of you are stupid enough to actually do it yourself. He did it and you KNOW he did it. Because he did it and because he was 200 pounds overweight, had an enlarged heart, hypertension, weight caused apnea, asthma, and numerous other weight related physical ailments, when he went down he had a heart attack. The cause of death was cardiac arrest which occurred while in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.
    And the autopsy report?

    Did it show he died of a heart attack?
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    It's possible to support police generally, but still admit that there's a pretty good chance that this cop in this situation was way over the line. I firmly believe that police should receive the benefit of the doubt in virtually all situations. After all its a tough job with a ton of stress and not a lot of pay. But this??? We DO have bad cops in the US.

    Forget the reasons behind anything, they're irrelevant. Whether or not the police were right or wrong to arrest Garner is an entirely separate question. Was Garner fat? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what he had for lunch. It doesn't matter if Garner was a serial killer or a model citizen. It doesn't matter if Garner was a 300lb black man or a 90lb old lady. The police are law enforcement, not administers of justice.

    What we have here is a man that was killed during an arrest in which he did not physically resist. I don't care who you are, what party you vote for, or what color your skin is; that is unacceptable and likely a homicide. Imagine this story where the guy killed was a Tea Partier protesting taxes. What if it was an elderly grandmother? Still feel the same way?

    You're right to point out that we don't have all of the details. That's the point of a trial. Police officers aren't vigilantes. They aren't the final arbiters of violence. They need to be held accountable just like everyone else.
    I believe police officers should be held accountable as well. IN fact these police officers WERE held accountable. What pisses everyone off was that after 9 weeks of careful deliberation it was found that their was no law broken. Everyone has been stirred into a demand for justice on an incomplete video they believe shows things it demonstrably doesn't.

    While I agree with your approach in theory I can't help but come to the conclusion that a lot of people, in an effort to fight back against police vigilantism have become vigilantes themselves.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Emphasis on the word contributing. The coroner called the primary causes neck and chest compression. That makes your statement factually incorrect.
    But one also has to weigh the amount of pressure that was applied. Garner did not die of asphyxiation, and the preliminary autopsy showed no damage to Garner’s windpipe or neck bones. However, a man in such poor health with acute asthma, heart disease, diabetes, and obesity it wouldn't take a whole lot of pressure to cut the man's wind off.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Seems only to apply to retailers..... can you quote the specific text you have in mind?


    I see a reference here to a state law.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/ny...pagewanted=all


    I'm really curious to find it.
    You won't have a bylaw or legislation that specifically says Eric Garner is prohibited from selling loosies. That's not how laws are written. The bylaw I provided you stipulates that only those licensed by the city to sell cigarettes may sell cigarettes and cigarettes may only be sold in packages of at least 4 and at the legislated price. Everything and anything else related to the sale of cigarettes is thus prohibited and against the law.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I suppose the grand jury listened to the coroner when he said this guy was a fat **** a hairsbreath away from the heart attack that killed him. Or did you miss the contributing factors? Tasing the guy would have killed him.
    Yet this was nothing more than failure to pay a nuisance tax. It is impossible to deny that excessive force was used for an infraction.

  8. #1838
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Surely you have some sort of point to make with that video. Is it "This is what happens to dumbasses that resist arrest"? Or is it "Rather than apply a choke hold, the cops in NYC should have beaten him batons"? Or maybe, "see? Universally...in the US or Poland, when an incident like this occurs cops are trained to swarm the individual until he is detained just like in NY"?
    Well you see the cops purposely targeting legs instead of the head. Cops in america seem to love to clober the head. Like this guy.



    It should be rule of law that officers have to earn their paychecks. Like these guys.



    There should be no targeting of the head or neck ever. Unless the criminal targets a cops neck or head. And even then if a old lady or cripple slaps a cop in the face the cop shouldnt get a ticket to slug away.

    There seems to be a huge case of "this cop is a ****in pussy, eager to prove on weaklings or subdued or ganged up targets" thing here in America going on.
    Last edited by dirtpoorchris; 12-05-14 at 02:31 PM.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    You won't have a bylaw or legislation that specifically says Eric Garner is prohibited from selling loosies. That's not how laws are written. The bylaw I provided you stipulates that only those licensed by the city to sell cigarettes may sell cigarettes and cigarettes may only be sold in packages of at least 4 and at the legislated price. Everything and anything else related to the sale of cigarettes is thus prohibited and against the law.
    How the **** is that capatalism... Thats price by royal decree.
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  10. #1840
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    You won't have a bylaw or legislation that specifically says Eric Garner is prohibited from selling loosies. That's not how laws are written. The bylaw I provided you stipulates that only those licensed by the city to sell cigarettes may sell cigarettes and cigarettes may only be sold in packages of at least 4 and at the legislated price. Everything and anything else related to the sale of cigarettes is thus prohibited and against the law.



    What is the punishment/fine? I couldn't find that.
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