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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    According to the officer he was being detained for suspicion of selling untaxed cigarettes (a crime he had a substantial history of committing in the past).
    There is no such thing as "resisting arrest" until a person is told s/he is under arrest. Being detained is not the same as being arrested either.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Not one person, ever, has presented anything showing he was given any police command or that he was ever informed he was under arrest.

    There is no such thing as the crime of "resisting." Resisting what? Being chocked, thrown to the ground, crushed, head pressed into the concrete?

    It was a brutal, vicious and deadly takedown. Nothing tame about it. Claiming that's "tame" is absurd, truly absurd.


    Good lord....

    If dood wasnt 200+ pounds overweight and had spent some time on the stairmaster, no one would have cared because he would be alive and well and probably on arrest citation # 37, instead of just #31.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I dont know if he is guilty or not...but I DO know he had some 30 prior arrests, and many of them were felonies. If he wasnt guilty, he should have gone to court. Its not like he didnt know the way there.
    Everyone of you police worshippers point to Garner's record - and ABSOLUTELY NONE OF YOU - have done so for the officer of the chock hold.

    Daniel Pantaleo

    Daniel Pantaleo is a New York City Police Department officer who at the time of Garner's death was 29 years old, and living in Eltingville, Staten Island.[26] Pantaleo was the subject of two civil rights lawsuits in 2013 where plaintiffs accused Pantaleo of falsely arresting them and abusing them.[27] In one of the cases, Pantaleo and other officers ordered two black men to strip naked on the street for a search and the charges against the men were dismissed.

    Death of Eric Garner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Mostly agree, but the absurd zero tolerance policies are more right wing authoritarian than they are "progressive." The seem regressive to me.
    They're a trademark of both but in todays' western world, and especially in the US from my experience, the 0 tolerance mentality comes from the leftist "progressive" people whom as I said before, are not really progressive. They are just commandeering the word to describe themselves but they're very twisted people with a huge talent for mental gymnastics.

    What you say about the right wing authoritarian mentality is indeed true in countries like Iran and the arab world.

    There is a difference in the way these 2 groups operate. The leftists, the "progressives" are persuading people to be like them, to join their little cult by offering them "salvation". "Be like us, think like us and you're a good person, you're not evil. you're tolerant and good and open-minded and all that good stuff, but you have to think like us, believe exactly like we believe because we know what is right and true and good and everyone else who doesn't comform is the evil enemy! "

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post


    Good lord....

    If dood wasnt 200+ pounds overweight and had spent some time on the stairmaster, no one would have cared because he would be alive and well and probably on arrest citation # 37, instead of just #31.
    Cite your medical credentials.

    The city medical examiner has ruled the death of Eric Garner, the 43-year-old father whose death in police custody sparked national outrage, a homicide, saying a chokehold killed him.
    The medical examiner said compression of the neck and chest, along with Garner's positioning on the ground while being restrained by police during the July 17 stop on Staten Island, caused his death.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post


    Good lord....

    If dood wasnt 200+ pounds overweight and had spent some time on the stairmaster, no one would have cared because he would be alive and well and probably on arrest citation # 37, instead of just #31.
    Then you would have no problem if someone jumped your wife or mother from behind with a chock hold, threw her to the concrete, while another man shoved her head into concrete and the full weigh of a man on her back - because that's tame and there is no danger of it.

    You know that by your medical expertise and having participated in the autopsy.

    Your end of your sentence is your cheering his death, nothing else.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    It is true that people are emotional. It is also true that watching a video does not give one all of the relevant facts. We do not put people through a trial simply so others can feel good about themselves. We have Grand Juries who evaluate the evidence the prosecutor has to determine if there is sufficient evidence to charge someone with a crime. This is a check against tyranny. Without it an officer of the government can charge anyone with any crime no matter whether there is evidence or not. By having a dozen or more of your neighbors review the evidence and then vote to charge or not, the prosecutor is stymied from being an agent of tyranny.

    Justice was done. Set aside your feelings and reason.
    I'd agree with your take if the grand jury system in the US wasn't steeped in politics and wasn't conducted in private. You need transparency and fullness in order for society to accept the decisions of others. There is often disagreement with jury decisions, but when held in public courts and people have viewed all the evidence for themselves, they are less likely to be emotionally charged. Trials also allow society to judge the law itself - my point was, in a public trial, society at large can view and pass judgement on the law as it exists and move to change it. When the trial is held in private, they feel cheated.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Fortunately it is not the one we have. The grand jury is comprised of citizens from the neighborhood where the trial is likely to take place. They are civilian citizens. They are independent of the prosecutor. They evaluate the evidence the prosecutor has, hears testimony from witnesses and then decides whether or not to charge. Where I live we use the property tax and voter registrations records as the grand jury pool. Anyone can be called and everyone who is called must present themselves for selection. Grand Juries here typically meet for one or two days. A few will meet several times over a two to three week period. Everything is done in secret.

    It is a final brake against tyranny at the local level.
    Again, you'd have a point if your justice system wasn't steeped in politics. Too many in the American justice system are either elected or appointed by those who are elected. I prefer Canada's system of police oversight where a professional oversight body, beholden to no one, reviews the evidence and determines if charges should be laid. The police don't collect evidence, prosecutors don't collect or present evidence, it is done entirely independently until such time as an officer is charged with an offense and then it gets into the criminal justice system for prosecution. Politics is nowhere to be found and people in Canada have complete confidence in the process.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What criminal act was he committing?
    Hi Grant.
    In NYC a pack of cigarettes costs between 11-13 bucks due to all the taxes placed on them. This has created a black market problem for NYC where people will purchase cigarettes in another state for much less and bring them back to NY and sell them much cheaper by the pack or loosies for a few bucks versus putting out 13 for a full pack. In January 2014 tough new penalties for selling untaxed cigarettes took effect in New York City. The city’s highest-ranking uniformed cop, Philip Banks, issued an order to crack down on loosie sales days before Garner died.
    McQUILLAN: Lessons from Eric Garner's death and cigarette taxes - Washington Times
    Garner has been arrested several times for selling untaxed cigarettes. Reports state the NYPD have confirmed he was part of an organized ring black marketing cigarettes. And that he had been under surveillance for some time to find out the name of his supplier . It's the merchants in the area that reported Garner to the police for his activities as he moved from one location to another to set up his business in front of their stores.
    BREAKING: NYPD Confirms #EricGarner Was A Member of Organized Crime in Staten Island - GotNews
    While these laws on cigarettes and the punishment/fines seem rather over the top to a lot of people, you got to understand this is NYC where Mayor Bloomberg went after cigarettes hiking taxes and banning smoking almost everywhere and was responsible for the harsher penalties that went into effect this year for selling untaxed cigarettes. Out of Garner's 30 some arrests, around 6 arrests were for selling untaxed cigarettes.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Eh, this is based on another what if isn't it? Okay, we don't have video for... what could be 3 seconds, 5 seconds, the 2 seconds it takes to send a message and what? Here, I'll get your started on your next weak argument:

    What if........ (You can complete the rest of this exercise in meaningless supposition and theorizing.)
    Not a what if. It is a the missing piece that links the officers standing with hands crossed to the officers attempting to arrest Garner. My point was originally in regard to the claim that he was being arrested for no reason which is a simple assumption since the critical video to establish that either does not exist or was edited out of the video before posting it.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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