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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Grant, it was not illegal. It was unauthorized.
    Potatoes potatoes. The man said "It is never my intention to harm anyone", yet it is quite clear he did and he did it deliberately. You don't sneak up behind a person, put him in a choke-hold, bring him crashing to the sidewalk and then claim it was not his intent to harm anyone. Of course that was his intent. He should have said, "It was never my intention to kill anyone", and many would have understood that.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Dood resists arrest. Dood is arrested. SOP. You want to see these kinds of needless deaths stop?1-stop committing criminal acts and 2-stop thinking you have this right to NOT comply with law enforcement. Brown would be alive today if he had simply said, sorry man...we'll get out of the middle of the road. Garner would have been alive today had he said OK...but Im fighting it in court. I dont know...maybe he felt like 31 was not going to be his lucky number.
    What criminal act was he committing?

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Fortunately it is not the one we have. The grand jury is comprised of citizens from the neighborhood where the trial is likely to take place. They are civilian citizens. They are independent of the prosecutor. They evaluate the evidence the prosecutor has, hears testimony from witnesses and then decides whether or not to charge. Where I live we use the property tax and voter registrations records as the grand jury pool. Anyone can be called and everyone who is called must present themselves for selection. Grand Juries here typically meet for one or two days. A few will meet several times over a two to three week period. Everything is done in secret.

    It is a final brake against tyranny at the local level.
    If you trust the wisdom of the people all that much, how do you explain the last Presidential results?

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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Wonder all you want. When you join the mob you get what the mob gets. It always comes with a price. How are you any different than the looters and arsonists in Ferguson? Burning on emotion instead of reason still leaves you burned.

    Where do you want to take this? Shall we have Eric Holder sitting on on every grand jury throughout the land to make sure the citizens see what Eric Holder wants him to see? When did you lose faith in the American citizen?

    Or are you arguing that the district attorney is corrupt? Other than your feelings what is your evidence? Wait. You don't need evidence anymore. You now have feelings and they trump reason every time.

    I wish you would reconsider. Your way is guaranteed to local tyranny. It will be a quiet tyranny. You won't see the lives wrecked by phony trials. But it will still happen. It always does.
    Neither of us is part of a mob or promoting tyranny. We just have a difference of opinion.

    We can both have concern over phoney trials, just as we can have concern over Grand Jury decisions. Juries have been wrong before, and calling them "Grand" shouldn't make much difference.

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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Think a little deeper. Why was he there? What was he doing and what made it profitable? Why did others object? Why did the city make a repeat offense a felony? He was a repeat offender, at least from the allegations online. Why would it be a felony to sell cigarettes without a tax stamp? Who made those laws? Who hired so many police to enforce their laws?

    Liberalism ran amok. It always causes misery for most. And death to a few. If you want to solve this problem create a single sales tax rate for everything. No exceptions.
    I can agree with much of that but am also concerned about gratuitous police violence. I would have the same opinion if he was a shoplifter or a pickpocket.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Where do you see tyranny in the video? You are irrational. It is a shame. It happens.
    It was you who raised the question of tyranny but i don;t see any tyranny in the actions of Eric Garner. I'll support the police in the performance of their duty but have also seen them at the Berlin Wall, and have run into their corruption in other countries.

    "Who will watch the watchmen?" is a translation of the phrase "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" made famous by the Roman Poet Juvenal in his satires".

    It's obviously not a new problem.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What criminal act was he committing?
    According to the officer he was being detained for suspicion of selling untaxed cigarettes (a crime he had a substantial history of committing in the past).

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    According to the officer he was being detained for suspicion of selling untaxed cigarettes (a crime he had a substantial history of committing in the past).
    Detained on suspicion? Despite no evidence that this had actually occurred?

    There should be some discretion used in these cases without having several officers arrive to arrest someone on suspicions that maybe he sold one or more cigarettes. This is literal overkill.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Detained on suspicion? Despite no evidence that this had actually occurred?

    There should be some discretion used in these cases without having several officers arrive to arrest someone on suspicions that maybe he sold one or more cigarettes. This is literal overkill.
    Ask the officer. What we know and the evidence clearly shows is that the officer announced his intent and Garner resisted. Thats going to result in an arrest every time. But be honest. That HAS to be one of the tamest take downs you have witnessed of a subject twice the officers size and resisting arrest. He swung his arms and refused to comply, another officer got him around the neck and shoulders and in 8 seconds he was down and that same officer held his head and shoulders down while he was cuffed.

    He is dead because he refused to comply with the law enforcement officer. I dont know if he is guilty or not...but I DO know he had some 30 prior arrests, and many of them were felonies. If he wasnt guilty, he should have gone to court. Its not like he didnt know the way there.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Ask the officer. What we know and the evidence clearly shows is that the officer announced his intent and Garner resisted. Thats going to result in an arrest every time. But be honest. That HAS to be one of the tamest take downs you have witnessed of a subject twice the officers size and resisting arrest. He swung his arms and refused to comply, another officer got him around the neck and shoulders and in 8 seconds he was down and that same officer held his head and shoulders down while he was cuffed.

    He is dead because he refused to comply with the law enforcement officer. I dont know if he is guilty or not...but I DO know he had some 30 prior arrests, and many of them were felonies. If he wasnt guilty, he should have gone to court. Its not like he didnt know the way there.
    Not one person, ever, has presented anything showing he was given any police command or that he was ever informed he was under arrest.

    There is no such thing as the crime of "resisting." Resisting what? Being chocked, thrown to the ground, crushed, head pressed into the concrete?

    It was a brutal, vicious and deadly takedown. Nothing tame about it. Claiming that's "tame" is absurd, truly absurd.

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