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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Obviously you claim you were. Tell us what happened. There has to be some basis for your incessantly claiming the GJ heard all relevant evidence and witnesses. What is that basis?
    I have not foolishly countered their decision. You have.

    I believe I may have asked you this already. Are you making allegations of corruption against the district attorney or the prosecutor? Do you believe the police intimidated members of the grand jury? Make your claims and present your evidence.

    In the mean time I will continue to accept the grand juries decision.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    .... I don't know, it increasingly seems like the police are a part of that criminal class
    I don't know. I have known a few over the years. The ones I met were pretty impressive people. Of course like attracts like. :-)

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    1) No one is talking about nationalizing the police. Not even close.
    Just watch. Already we are seeing increased meddling by the Justice Department into local crimes.

    2) Plenty of nations don't use grand juries, and have not collapsed into tyranny. (Unless you have a patently ridiculously low barriers for your definition of "tyranny.")
    I doubt you can make that case. Tyranny occurs when the levers of government power reside in a single office or individual. If a prosecutor can bring serious charges against anyone for any reason without the brakes of overwatching citizens then the conditions for tyranny are set. And you will never see nor hear of the coercion, of the bullying, and of people broken by unfair arrest and trial. Whether one wins or loses trials are rending things. Putting that power in the hands of one person is tyrannical.

    "We cannot always see the ones who are broken by trials for crimes they never committed. I brought a lawsuit and won. But it cost me dearly. It costs the state nothing."

    1) I have no interest whatsoever in your personal business.
    It is so easy to miss the points one chooses not to see.
    2) Yes, it does cost the State to pursue cases in court. Prosecutors don't have unlimited budgets; cities don't have unlimited resources.
    No. It costs the state nothing. The prosecutor is not paying out of pocket. The state feels no pain. Only the taxpayers feel the pain.

    "Be careful what you wish for. Tyranny nearly always is included in your bargain."

    From what I can tell, you probably think Chipotle is an instrument of tyranny.

    Meanwhile, the real tyranny right now seems to be that police can kill citizens with impunity, even when the individual is unarmed, not violent, resisting arrest by waving his arms, and a suspect in a non-violent offense.
    No one can prevent you from being on the wrong side of an issue. Least of all me.

    There was no tyranny in that particular death unless it was the tyranny of too much fried chicken and gravy. Police did not kill him with impunity. He died because he was a sick, out of shape fatass who resisted arrest.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    It doesn't have to be the same. Regardless if the police proceed to search, detain or arrest, you do not resist. She resisted the moment she was asked to step outside the vehicle.



    If you're indicted and it is mentioned that you tried to flee the seen of a crime, it can potentially be bad.



    She was informed she was being detained. She was ordered to step outside the vehicle. She refused. How is that not resisting? They had to break her window to get her out of the car...



    That's a mistake. The window is actually supposed to be rolled 1/4th of the way. Open enough so that you can have a conversation and pass documents through the window. If the window is not down far enough, the police cannot be able to see if there are any weapons concealed. So yes, it is about their safety too. They're still not allowed to search inside your car.

    However, just imagine how much simpler it all would have been if she would have just rolled her window down...
    "Resisting" is just a word. "Resisting" is not a crime. Resisting police is no a crime. "Resisting arrest" is a crime.

    As I stated, I have no complaint with any of it other than when the officer said she was resisting arrest.

    Refusing to step out of the car can be declared (or concocted) into numerous offenses depending on laws. "Failure to comply with a lawful police order." "Interfering the police."
    BUT there can be NO resisting arrest until a person is informed they are under arrest. That is obvious.

    What I am complaining of it misusage of the word "resisting" and specifically "resisting arrest." Resistance of itself is not illegal. If a police officer begins assault me, that is not a declaration that I am being arrested. Rather, it is the fact that I am being assaulted.

    That is why so many times I have asked for anything to show he was informed that he was under arrest. Or at least SOME command. I heard none. Nor have any been reported.

    Not only could he tell the police "don't touch me," and "leave me alone," he could legally tell them "go fuck yourselves" or anything else but a physical threat.

    It was impossible for him to resist arrest unless informed he was under arrest. It was impossible for him to have been resisting any command, unless he had been given one.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Just watch. Already we are seeing increased meddling by the Justice Department into local crimes.


    I doubt you can make that case. Tyranny occurs when the levers of government power reside in a single office or individual. If a prosecutor can bring serious charges against anyone for any reason without the brakes of overwatching citizens then the conditions for tyranny are set. And you will never see nor hear of the coercion, of the bullying, and of people broken by unfair arrest and trial. Whether one wins or loses trials are rending things. Putting that power in the hands of one person is tyrannical.

    "We cannot always see the ones who are broken by trials for crimes they never committed. I brought a lawsuit and won. But it cost me dearly. It costs the state nothing."


    It is so easy to miss the points one chooses not to see.

    No. It costs the state nothing. The prosecutor is not paying out of pocket. The state feels no pain. Only the taxpayers feel the pain.

    "Be careful what you wish for. Tyranny nearly always is included in your bargain."


    No one can prevent you from being on the wrong side of an issue. Least of all me.

    There was no tyranny in that particular death unless it was the tyranny of too much fried chicken and gravy. Police did not kill him with impunity. He died because he was a sick, out of shape fatass who resisted arrest.
    There is nothing to show he "resisted arrest."

    He died because of the way he was assaulted.

    He sneers at Gardener's weight because a hater's gotta hate. The friend chicken and gravy thing is his tossing his tad of racism into it. There's a lot of racist jokes about African-Americans and fried chicken. I'm certain he knows many of them. Surprised he didn't toss watermelon into it.

    We saw many a buffet line in NYC - didn't see chicken and gravy once.

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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I have not foolishly countered their decision. You have.

    I believe I may have asked you this already. Are you making allegations of corruption against the district attorney or the prosecutor? Do you believe the police intimidated members of the grand jury? Make your claims and present your evidence.

    In the mean time I will continue to accept the grand juries decision.
    You are the one declaring the grand jury was fully informed of all evidence and witnesses - when you don't know jack [/FONT] what the grand jury saw or heard. Therefore, you continually declaring the heard everything they should have is something you make up entirely out of thin air - while declaring it known fact.

    Anyone in the criminal justice system or law enforcement understands no one is going to be indicted that the prosecutor doesn't want indicted.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    1) No one is talking about nationalizing the police. Not even close.
    2) Plenty of nations don't use grand juries, and have not collapsed into tyranny. (Unless you have a patently ridiculously low barriers for your definition of "tyranny.")



    1) I have no interest whatsoever in your personal business.
    2) Yes, it does cost the State to pursue cases in court. Prosecutors don't have unlimited budgets; cities don't have unlimited resources.



    From what I can tell, you probably think Chipotle is an instrument of tyranny.

    Meanwhile, the real tyranny right now seems to be that police can kill citizens with impunity, even when the individual is unarmed, not violent, resisting arrest by waving his arms, and a suspect in a non-violent offense.
    Misterveritis thinks it's tyranny when his shoe comes undone.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    "Resisting" is just a word. "Resisting" is not a crime. Resisting police is no a crime. "Resisting arrest" is a crime.

    As I stated, I have no complaint with any of it other than when the officer said she was resisting arrest.

    Refusing to step out of the car can be declared (or concocted) into numerous offenses depending on laws. "Failure to comply with a lawful police order." "Interfering the police."
    BUT there can be NO resisting arrest until a person is informed they are under arrest. That is obvious.

    What I am complaining of it misusage of the word "resisting" and specifically "resisting arrest." Resistance of itself is not illegal. If a police officer begins assault me, that is not a declaration that I am being arrested. Rather, it is the fact that I am being assaulted.

    That is why so many times I have asked for anything to show he was informed that he was under arrest. Or at least SOME command. I heard none. Nor have any been reported.

    Not only could he tell the police "don't touch me," and "leave me alone," he could legally tell them "go fuck yourselves" or anything else but a physical threat.

    It was impossible for him to resist arrest unless informed he was under arrest. It was impossible for him to have been resisting any command, unless he had been given one.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    My God....is that photo before or after or before Garner said he could breath? What exactly are you defending here, MMC?
    I would think it was Before. As the GJ noted in the Video that after Garner said he couldn't breathe. Then the Cop gave up the chokehold. After the first time of him saying it.


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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    That's a question for the mayor and the city council

    Not the police force whose job it is to enforce those laws on the books
    It has been said he was selling cigarettes illegally but there is no evidence of that in the video, nor why they were arresting him at all. Of course I could be wrong.

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