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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I believe you are better than this. You have not seen the evidence.
    I've seen the video. Garner was unarmed and non-violent. One of the officers used a choke hold. Another pushed his head into the ground, and sat on his back, compressing his chest.

    The autopsy indicated that both of these were instrumental in causing Garner's cardiac arrest.

    I also know that grand juries almost never decline to indict. It's not a system where evidence is challenged; it's almost always a mere formality. It certainly doesn't match the level of scrutiny of a full file.

    But hey, why talk about police brutality and injustices of the courts, when we can bitch about taxes?

    It’s Incredibly Rare For A Grand Jury To Do What Ferguson’s Just Did | FiveThirtyEight

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    First is key. Coos cant generate probable cause.
    Citizens never know what the probable cause may be, so they should always proceed with caution. If not:


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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Troubles me that one there is a law against selling individual cigs. But two, he there is that law and he broke in many times.
    Dude was not a saint and was well known to the police. Never ends well for anyone.
    One must take up liberal laws designed to extract the greatest possible amount of wealth from your neighbors with the ones who routinely do it. Liberalism requires vast amounts of plunder.

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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Seriously? A New York cop chokes a low-level bad-behaviour perp and people should protest liberalism?

    Ahemcoughtunnelvisioncough
    Well, liberalism created the black market, a liberal told the popo to rid the city of the scourge of loosies, there's enough blame to go around.

    Fact. Dude didnt neet to be protected and served the **** out of for a loosie
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't know how the grand jury system works. And don't have the ambition to look into it. But I can absolutely assure you that not every prosecution requires a grand jury. As a matter of fact, if you remember Zimmerman, the DA was heartily criticized because she elected NOT to convene a grand jury.

    Okay, here ya' go:

    IOW, not every prosecution (in fact, few of them) require a grand jury.
    NY state law requires it. Many, including judges, urge eliminating it as it is just a rubber stamp for the prosecutor for its structure and practice.

    Yes, I also criticized the DA for not taking it to a GJ. The case against Zimmerman was SO weak and there SO much politics involved (it was election season) that the DA assuredly wanted the publicity. This also was the backwoods of Florida (Central Florida). The good ole folks here are bold enough to defy authority, even a DA. Country folk are more likely to renegade against power in tangible, stubborn ways.

    We are seeing the consequences of defying the NYPD! If you lived in NYC, would you give a little bit of thought before indicting some NYPD police given their reputations? There is no legal protection for having served on a GJ. Zero.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    It is not illegal to tell a cop to go **** himself.
    No, but it doesn't necessarily help if you are going to be detained, or in the process of being detained.

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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    I've seen the video. Garner was unarmed and non-violent. One of the officers used a choke hold. Another pushed his head into the ground, and sat on his back, compressing his chest.

    The autopsy indicated that both of these were instrumental in causing Garner's cardiac arrest.

    I also know that grand juries almost never decline to indict. It's not a system where evidence is challenged; it's almost always a mere formality. It certainly doesn't match the level of scrutiny of a full file.

    But hey, why talk about police brutality and injustices of the courts, when we can bitch about taxes?

    It’s Incredibly Rare For A Grand Jury To Do What Ferguson’s Just Did | FiveThirtyEight
    Personally, I doubt the choke hold had much to do with it. It was released quickly . . . he was talking after release. I think it was all about him being on his belly and cops being over-top of him. Try it yourself. Lie on the ground face down and have someone sit on you. You'll see. His weighing 300# and lying on his belly with weight on him is what killed him. His lungs couldn't expand.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    It is true that people are emotional. It is also true that watching a video does not give one all of the relevant facts.
    This video in particular shows enough to justify an indictment.


    We do not put people through a trial simply so others can feel good about themselves.
    Officer Pantaleo hasn't had a trial.


    We have Grand Juries who evaluate the evidence the prosecutor has to determine if there is sufficient evidence to charge someone with a crime. This is a check against tyranny.
    It's a rubber stamp... unless a cop is involved. As a "check against tyranny," it's almost completely ineffectual.


    Without it an officer of the government can charge anyone with any crime no matter whether there is evidence or not.
    Yeah, they can do that anyway. Hence, the infamous saying that any prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreetVixen View Post
    Citizens never know what the probable cause may be, so they should always proceed with caution. If not:

    Police are required to be able to verbally articulate what the reasonable suspicion is to get to probable cause
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Sometimes the Constitution needs some fine tuning to prevent tyrants from reigning indefinitely.

    You are like many who shrug and throw up your hands instead of doing what is necessary to preserve liberty. Very well. Arm up. The time of troubles will come if we do not have a Convention of States under Article V of the Constitution.
    Stand down, laddybuck. Conservative resistance to tyranny will always be implied, low-key, case-by-case, lest powers they relish be removed from government. If you want a full-out armed rebellion against tyranny, you need liberals.
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

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