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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Yes....no cross examination, which is why it is a joke. Indict and have a trial, that way all the information comes out in a real trial.....what is everyone afraid of? Due process?
    Please, please, educate yourself before you spout off like this. The grand jury is part of due process. And grand jurors can question witnesses, trial jurors cannot.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    You're wrong. We're not talking about juvie records here. The guy was an adult criminal. And pattern of of crimes, repeat offences, are almost always germane.
    No, they aren't. Cops use them as an excuse to justify their actions. Each situation is new, past doesn't predict the future.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Another absurd message.

    IF Gardener had been a 360 pound world champion MMA fighter or WWF champion... then yes, at least for a little while - he could have protected himself from being assaulted and killed by multiple police officers assaulting him to prevent him having an opportunity to resist arrest - for which they tactically decided NOT to inform him he was arrested and instead to surprise take him down before he could resist arrest if told he was under arrest.

    New police procedure - pre-emptively beat a person down and into submissive prior to effecting or notifying of an arrest to prevent possible resistance arrest. Beat the person down violently into physical submission first - then inform the person he is under arrest. However, if the person resists being beaten, then it is after-the-fact-resisting arrest, which he is informed of being arrested after his resistance to it.



    It seems there is a contest by police groupies of who can post the most absurd reasoning.

    it is called subdual

    you subdue a subject so they cant hurt you, or themselves

    it is trained in every police academy across the country

    ONLY AN IDIOT would claim to not understand this

    why do police use tasers instead of guns....to subdue NOT kill

    same here....only because of the perp's physical attributes, and his refusal to submit to authority, a tragedy occurred

    you can keep beating this dead horse all you like, but that is exactly what happened

    and until if and when they release the GJ testimony, that is all you will ever know
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    There's so much we don't know -- because we just don't understand the process. For instance, does the medical examiner interpret the findings of an autopsy? Or does the person doing the autopsy determine cause of death. Was there any physical evidence on his body that a chokehold had been applied? (He was certainly still breathing...and still TALKING...after the chokehold was released. That's a very important POINT, in my opinion.

    In coroner-speak, does homicide mean a CRIME has been committed, or does it simply mean that death was caused by actions of others? A coroner or medical examiner should certainly not be able to arbitrarily decide a crime was committed. I have a real problem with it being designated a homicide. Why wouldn't it be "accidental death"?
    Accidental Death Law & Legal Definition

    (1) An accidental injury visible on the surface of the body or disclosed by an autopsy, sustained solely by external, violent, and accidental means.

    (2) A disease or infection resulting directly from an accidental injury and beginning within 30 days after the date of the injury.

    (3) An accidental drowning.
    It seems that accidental death is used when a person causes an accident resulting in their own death. As the cop's actions directly led to Eric Garner's death, it would fall under homicide. Watching VanceMack avoid that fact is just laughable.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How would you have handled it? Be specific.

    What different laws?



    Inwould have skipped the petty loosy selling and focused on mire serious crime.

    Think about it, if he was smoking a joint, he'd be alive today.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Grand jurors are not selected by the public and the only witnesses they can question are ones the DA puts in front of them.

    But tell us, how do you say grand jurors are selected? They are NOT selected like jurors for jury trials. But tell us how you think they are selected.
    Why don't you look it up, you obviously don't understand how any of this works. And btw I never said the public selected grand jurors, I said they were selected FROM the public.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    There's so much we don't know -- because we just don't understand the process. For instance, does the medical examiner interpret the findings of an autopsy? Or does the person doing the autopsy determine cause of death. Was there any physical evidence on his body that a chokehold had been applied? (He was certainly still breathing...and still TALKING...after the chokehold was released. That's a very important POINT, in my opinion.

    In coroner-speak, does homicide mean a CRIME has been committed, or does it simply mean that death was caused by actions of others? A coroner or medical examiner should certainly not be able to arbitrarily decide a crime was committed. I have a real problem with it being designated a homicide. Why wouldn't it be "accidental death"?
    Answers:

    The medical examiner/coroner makes a determination of the cause of death. This, of course, can be challenged in court.

    "Homicide" does NOT mean a crime was committed. Rather, it means the person was killed by another person or persons. Homicide of itself is not criminal. Criminal homicide is criminal. Think of the phrase "justifiable homicide."

    It wasn't accidental death because that death was brought on by the actions of another person or people. For it to be declared "accident" would mean you are claiming that if the assault against Gardener had not happened he would have died at that same time anyway.

    "Assault" is also accurate. Gardener WAS in fact assaulted by the police. The legal question is was it a legal assault. That's always why the only legal issues should NOT have been just whether Gardener was criminally killed - but also whether it was legal for the police to assault him. The DA took that off the table - as does nearly everyone on this thread.
    Rather, they only want to debate absolute extremes. Murder or not murder - not the overall legalities of it.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post


    If anyone is interested in seeing how another cop handled a similar situation. A guy is essentially waving his hands in front of an officer, getting people to surround him, and lecturing a cop on the legality of his actions, while carrying a god damn boa on his neck. What does the cop do? Remain calm, and address the situation with seriousness. If we were to follow the what if arguments of some of the police brutality apologists, he should have been shot to death and his snake should have been used to keep his body from falling from the stretcher.
    Wonder how long before the local thugs in blue catch the snake guy or red shirt guy alone and plant a gun or drugs on them.
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    Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    You need to show me where i am wrong otherwise this is a sinple deflection.

    I know more about the law than you think.


    In fact you were supposed to cite penal code for me, yet you havent and i have.
    I live in Florida, not NY. I am not going to research NYC penal codes.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Yet your posting as if you do.
    I have only posted about how the arrest went. Patrol was called for some reason. They didn't just leave the station and say, "lets go kill a guy".

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