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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

  1. #1191
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Two sets of 'victims' that get no attention are the elderly and the mentally ill. They aren't 'sexy' causes.

    It's like scientific research. In order to be a P3, professional poverty pimp [social worker/community organizer] you need a cause, and the cause has to be more severe and wide swathed than the other causes. Therefore the cause has to be built up in the public's eye. Here, the big NGO's have dozens of staff but deliver far from real comfort while the mental illness workers are largely volunteer barely making do.

    And, as always, the more dramatic the pictures, the more the need is perceived to be urgent and what better show than a war story with fires and military hardware. Who wants to hear about some guy thinking he's Satan and goes about the collecting of souls with an assault rifle? It just isn't in the same league
    That's a GREAT point!

    With all this focus on popular causes the people who really need help aren't getting it.

    At some point there's going to be a reckoning and lots of folks are going to be forced to do a whole lot of rather uncomfortable soul searching.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    WHo would tell you he died of 'resisting arrest'? Thats just silly. He had to have died of some form or cardio or respiratory failure. What did he die of?
    He was murdered. The Coroner ruled his death a homicide. The question is whether or not this homicide was justified or not. I say it was not justified and at the least, the policeman should have been charged with manslaughter.

  3. #1193
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Do... you ... realize... that "if he was like this" is not a defense for using excessive force on another human being? Like if a woman and a man get into a fight... and the man ends up beating her to within an inch of life... the defends himself saying: "If she had been a man of the same physical condition, she'd have put a better fight" will not get him out of prison time.... right?
    Yeah, but there were no women in this case and you making up scenarios isn't convincing anyone you know what you're talking about.

  4. #1194
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya SN.
    Here is why the Cop will lose his job and with the coverage. It is a set of tragic events, that is no doubt.







    I Can’t Breathe’

    By this time, numerous officers are on the scene holding Mr. Garner down. Officer Pantaleo releases his neck hold, and presses Mr. Garner’s head onto the sidewalk as Mr. Garner repeats “I can’t breathe, I can’t breathe.”

    Officer Pantaleo: Officer Pantaleo said he heard Mr. Garner say he couldn't breathe, and removed his arm from the neck hold as quickly as he could. The video shows Mr. Garner saying, "I can't breathe" at least once before the officer released the hold.....snip~


    He didn't need to use both his hands to mash Garners head into the sidewalk.....but that wasn't caused this guys death.




    I don't believe that the cop wanted the man to die, but we can't ignore the results.

    I'm going to try this link one more time: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...n-eric-garner/

    Lots of good reading at that link about some laws and police practices in the USA that need to be changed.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 12-04-14 at 03:29 PM.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya SN. Here is why the Cop will lose his job and with the coverage. It is a set of tragic events, that is no doubt.

    I Can’t Breathe’

    By this time, numerous officers are on the scene holding Mr. Garner down. Officer Pantaleo releases his neck hold, and presses Mr. Garner’s head onto the sidewalk as Mr. Garner repeats “I can’t breathe, I can’t breathe.”

    Officer Pantaleo: Officer Pantaleo said he heard Mr. Garner say he couldn't breathe, and removed his arm from the neck hold as quickly as he could. The video shows Mr. Garner saying, "I can't breathe" at least once before the officer released the hold.....snip~


    He didn't need to use both his hands to mash Garners head into the sidewalk.....but that wasn't caused this guys death.

    The stupid, stupid claim that the ONLY potential criminal charge was murder is VERY annoying and was a CHEESY tactic of the DA.

    What about "assault?" "Official oppression?" "Abuse?" "Violation of Civil Rights?"

    Oh no, no - only debate and deal in absolutes - either it was or wasn't "manslaughter/murder." Let's not even discuss assault, abuse, oppression, civil rights...

    Nor even think about any employment sanctions, reprimands either. ONLY the question of it was or wasn't murder. EVERY POSSIBLY WAY to eliminate liability for the man's death.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    A heart attack.
    So if the cops had not showed up, he would have still died, yes?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    And now he's dead. I don't smoke but I don't believe that I have the right to tell others not to smoke.

    Or sell cigarettes.

    I don't believe that Eric Garner should be dead. From what I've read the man died because he was selling loose cigarettes. I wonder how many more people in New York will suffer the same fate.
    Whether cig sales should be taxed by the city or not just does not matter in this case. Whether it should be a criminal act to sell cigs without the required tax is also without application here. The man died because he refused to be cuffed and he had compromised his health to the point where he couldn't handle the struggle he caused. From the looks of the event that we have access to I'm sure the officers would have preferred to cuff him standing up. He decided that wasn't going to happen.

  8. #1198
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    No, I'm not stating a "what if". I am making clear statements of fact as to the level of health of Mr. Garner and to the difficulty of subdoing a 6'3" 360LB man.
    Ummm you are stating what if. Your argument is basically: What if he had been health!? Then he would have been dangerous! That's why they needed to act like they did. Ummm - you don't know what he would have been like if he'd been healthy. He could have reacted in the same way as he did and police action would still be seen as excessive.

    Given that you don't have video of what led up to Garner's yelling at the cops, and it cuts away between his yelling and the arrest, you really don't have a clue what happened.
    I saw the video 3 months ago. Move along with that ****.

    What what happens in teh video between second 33 and second 34. What happened between those two takes?
    Maybe he used the f-word and that's the smoking gun evidence that putting him in a chokehold was required.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    I don't believe that the cop wanted the man to die, but we can't ignore the results.
    The question is did any of the officers illegally assault him? THAT is the legal issue. Whether that then is official oppression, civil rights violation, assault, aggravated assault, manslaughter or murder is then the second question.

    Someone is beating you up. You break away and flee, getting hit by a car and die. Yes, it was criminal assault. No, it likely found that person had not murdered you.

    The REASON the prosecutor and all the police junkies ONLY will bring up whether or not it was murder is to DELIBERATELY avoid the core, fundamental question of was any of the violent actions against him illegal? They do NOT want THAT question asked.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yeah, but there were no women in this case and you making up scenarios isn't convincing anyone you know what you're talking about.
    Ummm - I'm exposing the stupidity in the what if things had been different arguments. What if he'd been white? What if he'd been shorter? What if he'd been skinny? None of these factors make a difference in what is in question here which is the legality of what the police did.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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