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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

  1. #1171
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You lie through omission. You conveniently left out his asthma, his diabetes and his advanced heart disease.

    In the end, Gardener was amazing frail and literally near death and his 6'3" 360LB frame gave the exact opposite impression. It was that false impression that led to the officer's choices on how to detain Gardener. Had he been a relatively healthy then a combative 6'3" 360LB Gardener would probably be more than the officers could handle.
    Another absurd message.

    IF Gardener had been a 360 pound world champion MMA fighter or WWF champion... then yes, at least for a little while - he could have protected himself from being assaulted and killed by multiple police officers assaulting him to prevent him having an opportunity to resist arrest - for which they tactically decided NOT to inform him he was arrested and instead to surprise take him down before he could resist arrest if told he was under arrest.

    New police procedure - pre-emptively beat a person down and into submissive prior to effecting or notifying of an arrest to prevent possible resistance arrest. Beat the person down violently into physical submission first - then inform the person he is under arrest. However, if the person resists being beaten, then it is after-the-fact-resisting arrest, which he is informed of being arrested after his resistance to it.



    It seems there is a contest by police groupies of who can post the most absurd reasoning.

  2. #1172
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yeah great, and it's well after the event and the cops still haven't turned up evidence of the existence of the red shirted individual in their story. The dude is apparently a ghost because they can't find him or something. Sorry, but I'm calling bull**** on their story.
    Which they are not required to do after such an event. It is based on their beliefs at the time, not evidence found or not later, which affects formal charges being filed or not, not an actual arrest.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  3. #1173
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    A small jab behind the knee can cause even Andre the Giant to lose his balance.


    Officer Pantaleo was waiting behind the camera and ran in to join the fray. His life was never in danger as he went directly for the back of Garners neck just like a wolf attacking his prey. In fact, that's what the entire thing looked like... a pack of wolves bringing down a prey that looks to be in shock.

    The officer never said he thought his life was in danger.....he said he became fearful when between Garner and the glass window.





    Banned Chokehold Is Used

    Officer Pantaleo reaches around Mr. Garner’s neck. He holds Mr. Garner in what William J. Bratton, the police commissioner, said appeared to be a chokehold.

    Legal issues : The New York City Police Department has banned the use of this particular hold, but the grand jury would only consider this to the extent that it indicated whether the officer was intentionally trying to kill Mr. Garner, acting “recklessly,” or in a “criminally negligent” manner, the legal definitions of various levels of murder and manslaughter.

    Officer Pantaleo: The officer said he was attempting to use a maneuver that employs leverage to force a larger man to the ground. He said he did not intend to use a chokehold and that he learned the maneuver at the Police Academy.....snip~

  4. #1174
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Seems you and Joko are like minded. Maybe you two together can come up with the actual cause of death. He also is going with homicide but offered the countering position of dying of 'resisting arrest'. So...you know...two heads....maybe you can come up with an actual answer.

    What did he die of?
    VanceMack, I'll make this really simple for you: What does homicide mean in every definition of the word?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  5. #1175
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    And I am exactly correct.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  6. #1176
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya CB. Oh, and here they do say he swatted their arms away, huh? I'll bet the 23 Jurors saw that as resisting.

    Because everytime you see me, you want to harass me. You want to stop me [garbled] Selling cigarettes. I'm minding my business, officer, I'm minding my business. Please just leave me alone. I told you the last time, please just leave me alone."[25] Garner swatted their arms away, saying, "Don't touch me, please."
    He was then put in a chokehold or headlock from behind by officer Daniel Pantaleo, in order to be subdued....
    .


    And now he's dead. I don't smoke but I don't believe that I have the right to tell others not to smoke.

    Or sell cigarettes.

    I don't believe that Eric Garner should be dead. From what I've read the man died because he was selling loose cigarettes. I wonder how many more people in New York will suffer the same fate.

  7. #1177
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Do... you ... realize... that "if he was like this" is not a defense for using excessive force on another human being? Like if a woman and a man get into a fight... and the man ends up beating her to within an inch of life... the defends himself saying: "If she had been a man of the same physical condition, she'd have put a better fight" will not get him out of prison time.... right?
    Ummm... chances are the man could tell she was a woman before beating them. Sorry, but it is a simple truth that when subduing people you use an entirely different level of force for a 6'3" 360LB man than you do a 5'0" 120LB woman... or a 6' 200LB man, for that matter.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  8. #1178
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Thats that "I know the answer is gonna suck so I'm not going to answer it" answer.

    The cops didnt 'kill him'. He resisted arrest, they arrested him, and because he resisted arrest, his morbidly obese body gave out on him.
    The cops did kill him, had they not intervened in the manner they did, he would still be alive. That doesn't mean police cannot intervene, as your hyperbole of "let them be killed or all criminals get to go free" argument you tried to give to hide the actual dynamics behind a false bimodal distribution.

    government force is limited. But no where else in the world do we see death by cops as prevalent as we do in America. It points to a systematic problem of overreaction and excessive force. That needs to be curtailed.

    Cops do not get to be judge and executioner, they must do their best to bring suspects in alive. Sorry if that so offends you.
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  9. #1179
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Officer Pantaleo: The officer said he was attempting to use a maneuver that employs leverage to force a larger man to the ground. He said he did not intend to use a chokehold and that he learned the maneuver at the Police Academy.....snip~
    What is he saying here... that he learned the chokehold in the police academy? OR that he learned the other maneuver he wasn't so good at using at the police academy? In either case, I hope this family sues the living **** out of this cop for wrongful death.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #1180
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Which is dealt with after the person is taken into custody. Right or wrong, if the police came to my door claiming I had killed someone and they put me under arrest for it, I shouldn't resist even if I know they are wrong. Especially if they have some evidence that could have been used against me that shows probable cause that is later found to be wrong. The reason is because police are given the benefit of the doubt. The trial is where the accused gets the benefit of the doubt, not during the arrest.
    Everything you say is true, except the part highlighted in red. Truth be told, the accused doesn't even get the benefit of the doubt in court. On paper... in theory... but not in reality. It is, however, their best shot. Relatively speaking.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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