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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    According to the autopsy, Garner died of compression to the neck, compressions to his chest, and being held prone by the officers caused his death.

    That's why the coroner's office ruled it a homicide, and it went before a grand jury.
    You lie through omission. You conveniently left out his asthma, his diabetes and his advanced heart disease.

    In the end, Gardener was amazing frail and literally near death and his 6'3" 360LB frame gave the exact opposite impression. It was that false impression that led to the officer's choices on how to detain Gardener. Had he been a relatively healthy then a combative 6'3" 360LB Gardener would probably be more than the officers could handle.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Where is this guy with a red shirt? If he saw this guy in a red where in the hell is he? The best the officer was able to do was say he saw this guy that apparently exists, which honestly isn't enough.
    It's also quite interesting that the cops waited until there was a fight for Garner to disrupt before they approached him regarding the sale of loose cigarettes.

    I guess that's just one of those happy coincidences.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Don't know, but not relevant to whether or not he was or should have been told he was under arrest except it shows that the cop who mentioned him was giving his reasoning for either detaining or arresting him.
    Well, that's my point. The cops claims are entirely left unsupported even if the cops should be able to find this red shirted fellow that apparently bought untaxed cigarettes, and yet, that red shirted individual is no where to be found. Telling.

    As for your point, I don't happen to agree with them being able to arrest people without informing them.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    It's not solely because he died in police custody. It's because the way they restrained him, when he wasn't being in any way violent, both violated NYPD policy and caused his death.

    In addition, while keeping in mind that none of us have seen the testimony or evidence presented to the grand jury, it's stunning that the prosecutor was unable to secure an indictment.


    I certainly see why people are upset that the indictment was declined.

    Care to explain that bolded statement? Absent the evidence how can you be so sure he should have gotten an indictment? You seem to on one hand except that the GJ had more information than you have when they made their decision and yet you seem confident that your admittedly ignorant opinion should have been their opinion to.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 12-04-14 at 02:57 PM.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You lie through omission. You conveniently left out his asthma, his diabetes and his advanced heart disease.

    In the end, Gardener was amazing frail and literally near death and his 6'3" 360LB frame gave the exact opposite impression. It was that false impression that led to the officer's choices on how to detain Gardener. Had he been a relatively healthy then a combative 6'3" 360LB Gardener would probably be more than the officers could handle.
    How the holy-hell is ANY of this relevant to the fact that the officer's chokehold and subsequent police dogpile led to Garner's death? I don't care if he's standing with one foot in the grave, their actions pushed him over the edge and killed him.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    It appears clear at this point that he was never told he was being placed under arrest - though it claimed somehow he was resisting arrest anyway.

    Apparently, if you resist being assaulted by police it is "resisting arrest." "Assault" and "Arrest" thus mean the same thing.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    What I object to is the defacto claim that it was criminal behavior because Gardener died. The number of contributing physical ailments that made a 6'3" 360 man so amazingly frail could not have been known by the arresting officers.
    Very true.

    Garnder was a "perferct storm" of physical problems that could (and did) cascade downward if he was placed under an even a moderate amount of physical and emotional stress. As such, he was the last guy who needed to "go MMA" with the police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    How the holy-hell is ANY of this relevant to the fact that the officer's chokehold and subsequent police dogpile led to Garner's death? I don't care if he's standing with one foot in the grave, their actions pushed him over the edge and killed him.
    If the arrest was lawful, then the physical force used to bring him to the ground was not unreasonable. While the choke hold may have been an administrative violation, it was not criminal.

    In short, it was Garnder's responsibility to consider his true physical condition before the tussle, not the police's.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 12-04-14 at 02:59 PM.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    He wasn't pulled over for DUI, was he?

    Would it be fair to say that it is your opinion those who fought in the American Revolutionary War were perfectly evil and should have been killed for "resisting?"
    Have you figured out yet that you still think the guy applying the "chockhold" is the same guy holding his head down and that in fact what you described was completely and utterly wrong in every way imaginable?

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You are absolutely ridiculous. Saying someone's health issues are caused by bad diet choices IS NOT an endorsement of Government Nanny State eating regulations. Mr. Gradener should be allowed to eat all the unhealthy crap he wants, but he also lived, and died with the consequences.



    I think the court ruled correctly. Are you now going to try and equate the denial of insulin for several days with a 13 second choke hold? Please do, I haven't laughed enough today.
    Wanted to see where you are on the wingnut scale..some folks think it is certainly OK to abuse people in jail.
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    It appears clear at this point that he was never told he was being placed under arrest - though it claimed somehow he was resisting arrest anyway.

    Apparently, if you resist being assaulted by police it is "resisting arrest." "Assault" and "Arrest" thus mean the same thing.
    You're forgetting the fact that all citizens must automatically submit to the power of the police regardless of their rights... as per the police apologist.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

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