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Thread: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

  1. #1141
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    will the GJ testimony be released in this case?

    it would probably clear up a lot of issue people seem to have with this case

    he had been cited/arrested for the same thing what 30 times already

    he was tired of the cops "hassling him"

    but he wasnt tired of breaking the law

    the event is tragic, but i dont see any crime here
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Roguenuke. I wonder why this cop is saying something about a lawful order?


    Pat Lynch of the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association went on to say, "We believe, however, that if he had not resisted the lawful order of the police officers placing him under arrest, this tragedy would not have occurred.".....snip~

    Medical Examiner Rules Eric Garner's Death a Homicide, Says He Was Killed By Chokehold | NBC New York
    No clue. Maybe they something about arresting him before the video started, leading to the camera getting turned on. After all there had to be some reason the cop pointed out that he saw him do something (whether a false claim or mistake, it still came from somewhere). Backtracking likely conversation leading to that comment would suggest the police had said they were arresting him before the video started.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya CB. Oh, and here they do say he swatted their arms away, huh? I'll bet the 23 Jurors saw that as resisting.

    Because everytime you see me, you want to harass me. You want to stop me [garbled] Selling cigarettes. I'm minding my business, officer, I'm minding my business. Please just leave me alone. I told you the last time, please just leave me alone."[25] Garner swatted their arms away, saying, "Don't touch me, please." He was then put in a chokehold or headlock from behind by officer Daniel Pantaleo, in order to be subdued.....
    Yeah, the wiki is a changing animal, it has changed since I read it yesterday. Still no mention of what happens between the time the undercover officer approached him and the other police arrive.

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not if they know they are being detained/arrested for a crime or suspicion of one.
    Ummm... was he arrested for a crime? Again, we're going in circles are you're ignoring the giant holes in your argument. First you argue that cops don't have to tell you they're arresting/detaining you: If that's the case then why can't a person resist any police action which has not been identified as being within the constraints of the law?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Where is this guy with a red shirt? If he saw this guy in a red where in the hell is he? The best the officer was able to do was say he saw this guy that apparently exists, which honestly isn't enough.
    Don't know, but not relevant to whether or not he was or should have been told he was under arrest except it shows that the cop who mentioned him was giving his reasoning for either detaining or arresting him.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #1146
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    It takes two types of personalities for a society to function:

    1. Most people have to be fearful and submissive sheeple. Followers. They need others, power, to tell them what to do and not do. For powerful people to protect them. Limit them. Direct them. This does not necessarily assure harmony though, as there can be more than one power or conflicting powers - such as the 2 political parties of which MOST people are blindly and intensely loyal to one or the other.

    Sheeple people MUST be the majority or no society can be formed.

    Like society, most people on the forum are in the first category. Granted, they will FURIOUSLY defend and rage on behalf of 1.) their masters and 2.) their sheeple-ness.

    2. Independent stubborn people who resist being told what to do merely for being told to do so - people self empowered to various degrees. All human, civil and individual rights originate from such people. This second group will always be a very small percentage of the population.

    Conflict in societies - for good or bad - are always battles between those in the 2nd category - as it is only those people who are leaders and independent fighters. However, each side will call upon sheeple to be submissive to them in their fights as a matter of submission loyalty.

    In areas of the world where there are MULTIPLE different leadership/power groups of the second category, those regions are in perpetual civil war and revolution - due to how fragmented the sheeple become in who they follow and submit to - including fighting others on their masters' demand.

    THUS, you see the furious and desperate claims by sheeple that the justification for killing that father of 6 was he "resisted" being instantly submissive, didn't instantly agree to accusations against him and didn't essentially declare himself under arrest accordingly - as the police had not.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-04-14 at 02:51 PM.

  7. #1147
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ummm... was he arrested for a crime? Again, we're going in circles are you're ignoring the giant holes in your argument. First you argue that cops don't have to tell you they're arresting/detaining you: If that's the case then why can't a person resist any police action which has not been identified as being within the constraints of the law?
    It is all based on circumstances. The world is not black and white, particularly in matters of the law.

    He was being arrested, from the evidence we have. Since it did not appear as if he was free to leave, that would be an arrest.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #1148
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ummm... was he arrested for a crime? Again, we're going in circles are you're ignoring the giant holes in your argument. First you argue that cops don't have to tell you they're arresting/detaining you: If that's the case then why can't a person resist any police action which has not been identified as being within the constraints of the law?
    Because most people aren't lawyers and can't really tell.

  9. #1149
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Moot. Its not illegal with the law to use a choke hold and not if an officer thought his life was in danger.

    Also, in the video Garner raises his hand and slightly pushes the officer back or to hold him up.




    Officers Move In

    Two officers move to arrest him. Mr. Garner pulls his hands away, again raising the question of resistance. The difference in size between the officers and Mr. Garner is apparent.

    Legal issues : Whether Officer Pantaleo felt his life was threatened could also be an issue in whether he acted criminally. If the grand jury viewed Officer Pantaleo’s actions as self-defense, then there would be no crime, said Eugene O'Donnell, a former police officer and professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

    Officer Pantaleo Officer Pantaleo said he became fearful when he was wedged between Mr. Garner and the plate glass window of a storefront and felt it buckle.....snip~
    A small jab behind the knee can cause even Andre the Giant to lose his balance.


    Officer Pantaleo was waiting behind the camera and ran in to join the fray. His life was never in danger as he went directly for the back of Garners neck just like a wolf attacking his prey. In fact, that's what the entire thing looked like... a pack of wolves bringing down a prey that looks to be in shock.

  10. #1150
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    Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    False conclusion on your part. You asked a specific question and got a specific answer. Can't apply it generally. Who said he didn't know they were placing him under arrest?
    Do you have any evidence he was? I'll wait.

    Let's not play, you're not very good at it.
    You're right. I'm consistent enough to not have to rely on bull**** arguments. But it's funny you admit you're good at the moving goalposts game. Essentially, your argument is: Yes, you have a right to defend yourself against any threatening action from the police... as long that as threatening action is determined by someone else's perception of a threat...
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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